>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO. " HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> THE DATA EXPECT BE PROPAGANDA.

THE DATA HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN TRUST.

>> TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES GO AFTER THE NUMBERS.

IS THE U. S. STILL HEADING FOR GOLDEN AGE HE PROMISED?

I ASKED NOBEL PRIZE WINNING ECONOMIST PAUL KRUGMAN AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, GREG MANKIW.

> >> THEN -- >> IN THE CURRENT UNIMAGINABLE CONDITION, THEY MAY HAVE ONLY DAYS LEFT.

>> HORROR FOR HOSTAGE FAMILIES AND FOR THE PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS AS STARVATION IN GAZA CONTINUES, TIME IS TICKING FOR LEADERS TO STOP THE SUFFERING.

ISRAELI JOURNALIST BARAK RAVID WEIGHS IN ON THE STATUS OF CEASEFIRE TALKS.

> >> PLUS -- >> A THREAT WAS MADE BY A FORMER PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA, AND WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT OUR PEOPLE.

>> BUT IS TRUMP'S ENVOY READY TO CONFRONT THE KREMLIN?

I SPEAK TO RUSSIA EXPERT ALEXANDER GABUEV AS UKRAINE FEELS THE DEADLY FORCE OF PUTIN'S DRONES.

> >> ALSO AHEAD -- >> COOKING AND WRITING ABOUT FOOD, IT'S A GOOD TUNE FOR PEOPLE TO DIVE DEEPER INTO A CULTURE.

>> DOCUMENTING THE DISHES OF HIS HOMELAND.

ACCLAIMED PALESTINIAN CHEF SAMI TAMIMI TELLS MICHEL MARTIN HOW HE IS KEEPING HIS CULTURAL HERITAGE ALIVE IN THE MIDST OF WAR.

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> >> "AMANPOUR & CO. " IS MADE POSSIBLE BY --THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

ACCORDING TO THE U. S. WHITE HOUSE, THE U. S. ECONOMY IS BOOMING.

ACCORDING TO DATA, THE U. S. ECONOMY IS SLOWING, WITH ONE REPORT IN PARTICULAR FUELING CONCERNS ABOUT A WEAK JOB MARKET.

IN RESPONSE, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS HIRING A NEW JOBS DATA CHIEF AFTER FIRING THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR PRODUCING THE NUMBERS HE CLAIMS WERE RIGGED.

IT'S A MOVE BACKED BY WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER KEVIN HASSETT.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> AS AN ECONOMIST, I LIKE TO GO FOR WHAT I CAN PROVE, AND WHAT I CAN PROVE IS THAT THE DATA HAVE BECOME VERY UNRELIABLE.

THEY COULD BE POLITICALLY MANIPULATED BECAUSE THEY'RE SO UNTRANSPARENT.

THERE IS A BLACK BOX SYSTEM OUT THERE MAKING THE JOBS NUMBERS THAT NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED.

>> SENATE MINORITY LEADER CHUCK SCHUMER IS NOW CALLING FOR HASSETT TO BE FIRED AFTER VOICING THE FEARS OF TRUMP'S CRITICS.

>> WHAT DOES A BAD LEADER DO WHEN THEY GET BAD NEWS?

SHOOT THE MESSENGER.

THAT'S JUST WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE HEAD OF THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS.

HE OUGHT TO START GOVERNING LIKE A LEADER, NOT LIKE SOMEONE WHO IMITATES AUTHORITARIAN LEADERS.

>> TRUMP IS ALSO SET TO HIRE A NEW MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE'S BOARD OF GOVERNORS AFTER A BIDEN APPOINTEE RESIGN.

THIS AS HIS TARIFFS ARE STARTING TO GENERATE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY.

SO WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING ON IN TRUMP'S ECONOMY?

WELL, HERE TO BREAK IT ALL DOWN, LET'S BRING IN NOBEL PRIZE WINNING ECONOMIST PAUL KRUGMAN AND GREG MANKIW.

LET'S START WITH THE HEAD OF THE BUREAU LABOR STATISTICS.

GREG, LET ME START WITH YOU.

HOW SIGNIFICANT OF A MOVE WAS THIS?

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION?

THIS IS TRADITIONALLY A NONPARTISAN ROLE, AND I BELIEVE SHE WAS CONFIRMED LAST YEAR.

86-8.

>> IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST PETULANT ACTS I'VE EVER SEEN A PRESIDENT ENGAGE IN.

ANYONE WHO HAS DEALT WITH THE FEDERAL STATISTICAL AGENCIES KNOW THAT THEY'RE RUN BY PROFESSIONALS.

THERE IS NOT A SHRED OF PARTISANSHIP IN THERE THAT I'VE EVER WITNESSED.

INDEED, I THINK IF THE COMMISSIONER OF THE BLS WANTED TO INSERT SOME PARTISANSHIP, HE OR SHE WOULD HAVE A TOUGH TIME DOING IT GIVEN THE LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE INVOLVED AND THE VERY SPELLED OUT PROCESSES THAT HAVE OCCUR.

IN FACT THERE HAVE BEEN REVISIONS IS NOT A SURPRISE.

IT'S PROBABLY THE CASE WE HAVE BIGGER REVISIONS WHEN THERE IS MORE UNCERTAINTY.

AND ONE THING DONALD TRUMP HAS GENERATE SAD LOT OF UNCERTAINTY OMMING ON THE ECONOMY AND THE ECONOMIC POLICY.

>> YOU AND GREG KNOW FIRSTHAND AND YOU'VE SEEN A PRESIDENT'S REACTION WHEN HE'S DELIVERED ECONOMIC NEWS THAT HE MAY NOT LIKE, THAT MAY ACTUALLY EVEN HURT HIM POLITICALLY IN THE JOB.

HAVE YOU EVER WITNESSED A SITUATION WHERE A PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT BUSH PERHAPS, WAS THREATENING TO FIRE SOME OF HIS TOP ECONOMIC ADVISERS OR THE BLS COMMISSIONER?

>> NO, NEVER.

I REMEMBER ONE TIME GETTING A CALL OVER DINNER FROM PRESIDENT BUSH THAT THE JOBS REPORT THE NEXT DAY WAS GOING TO REPORT THE ECONOMY HAD CREATED ONE THOUSAND JOBS.

AND HE SAID ONE THOUSAND JOBS?

IT'S ALMOST NOTHING IN A ECONOMY OF 150,000 WORKERS.

SO 150 MILLION WORKERS, EXCUSE ME.

SO NO, HE NEVER SUGGESTED THE DATA WAS WRONG.

HE NEVER SUGGESTED THERE WAS ANYTHING GOING ON WITH THE BLS.

I'VE NEVER HEARD OF ANY PRESIDENT SUGGEST ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

>> YEAH, AND PAUL, I MEAN, THE PRESIDENT EVEN CAME OUT IN SORT OF JUSTIFYING HIS FIRING, CLAIMED THAT SHE HAD PROVIDED GREAT NEWS, GREAT JOBS DATA JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION, AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY NOT TRUE.

I BELIEVE THE JOBS REPORT FOR LAST OCTOBER WAS EVEN WORSE THAN THE ONE WE GOT ON FRIDAY.

JANET YELLEN NEVER ONE TO OFFER HYPERBOLE HERE HAS CALLED THIS FIRING THE KIND OF THING YOU WOULD ONLY EXPECT IN A BANANA REPUBLIC.

ARE WE AT RISK OF UNDERMINING THE CREDIBILITY OF THE U. S. ECONOMY BY MOVES LIKE THIS?

>> OH, VERY MUCH SO.

I MEAN, THIS IS, AGAIN, VERY MUCH.

THIS HAS BEEN BANANA REPUBLIC STUFF.

I CALLED IT CARACAS ON THE POTOMAC.

THIS IS THE KIND OF THING WE ONLY SEE IN AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES.

THIS IS THE --THE BLS IS THE MOST PROFESSIONAL, I MEAN, AGENCY --I SHOULDN'T DISOTHER ASIANS, BUT IT'S INCREDIBLY PROFESSIONAL, INCREDIBLY CAREFUL.

THEY'RE VERY TRANSPARENT.

REVISIONS HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS HAVE TO TRADE OFF TIMELINESS AGAINST FULL ACCURACY.

SO THEY GIVE A PRELIMINARY REPORT EACH MONTH THAT IS BASED ON WHAT THEY HAVE AT THAT POINT.

IT OFTEN GETS -- ALWAYS GETS REVISED AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT.

THEY HAVE BIG REVISIONS NOW BECAUSE WE'RE IN A VERY UNCERTAIN STATE.

AND THAT KIND OF REVISION IS TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE ECONOMY IS, IN FACT, GOING THROUGH SOME KIND OF INFLECTION POINT.

THERE IS NOT A HINT.

AS GREG SAYS, IF YOU -- YOU CANNOT --THE IDEA THAT THEY ARE SURREPTITIOUSLY ON SOME HIDDEN BASIS COOKING THE BOOKS, THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO DO WITHOUT THERE BEING LOTS OF BUZZ ABOUT IT HAPPENING.

AND OF COURSE IT'S NOT.

TRUMP HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE NUMBERS WHEN THEY WERE GOOD.

AS SOON AS THEY GET BAD, IT'S A CONSPIRACY AGAINST HIM.

AND --YOU KNOW, EVERY ACCUSATION IS ACTUALLY A CONFESSION.

CLEARLY, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT KEVIN HASSETT IS SAYING, CLEARLY, HE IS HOPING TO START STUFFING THE BLS WITH PEOPLE WHO WILL GIVE HIM THE NUMBERS HE WANTS, AND THAT'S BANANA REPUBLIC TERRITORY.

>> AS SOMEONE WHO IS AN EXPERIENCED ECONOMIST, GREGORY, ARE YOU SURPRISED TO HEAR KEVIN HASSETT DEFEND THE PRESIDENT'S MOVE AS VIGOROUSLY AS HE HAS?

>> YEAH, I'VE KNOWN KEVIN FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

AND --I USED TO THINK OF IT AS AN EXCELLENT ECONOMIST.

HE SAYS A LOT OF THINGS ON TV NOW AS THE PRESIDENT'S REPRESENTATIVE THAT DON'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME.

SO HE HAS DECIDED THAT HE VALUES LOYALTY TO THE PRESIDENT PROBABLY MORE SO THAN A PROFESSIONAL ECONOMIST PROBABLY SHOULD.

HE SHOULD PROBABLY STICK TO HIS KNITTING, MAKE ARGUMENTS OTHER ECONOMISTS WOULD VIEW AS CREDIBLE.

I THINK LATELY HE HAS BEEN GOING OFF THE RESERVATION ABOUT WHAT PROFESSIONAL ECONOMISTS USUALLY SAY.

>> SOME EVEN SUGGESTING PERHAPS HE IS DOING THIS BECAUSE HE IS EYEING THE FED CHIEF JOB.

WE'LL GET TO THAT IN JUST A SECOND.

BUT LET'S DIG THROUGH THESE NUMBERS, PAUL, BECAUSE THEY WERE WEAK, MUCH WEAKER THAN EXPECTED, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ADD THE REVISIONS, DOWN BY OVER 250,000 JOBS.

GOLDMAN SACHS CALLED THE DOWNWARD REVISIONS, QUOTE, AMONG THE LARGEST SINCE 1960 AND RARE TO SEE SUCH REVISIONS OUTSIDE OF A RECESSION.

AND IT IS INTERESTING THAT IT WAS THAT POINT HOW STEEP THESE REVISIONS WERE THAT KEVIN HASSETT POINTED OUT WELL, THERE MUST BE A FLUKE HERE.

THE NUMBERS MUST BE RIGGED.

TALK ABOUT THE STATE OF THE U. S. ECONOMY FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE I WAS LISTENING TO AN INTERVIEW WITH JARED BERNSTEIN, AN ECONOMIC ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN PRIOR TO THIS JOBS REPORT ON FRIDAY, AND HE SAID HE WASN'T WORRIED ABOUT AN IMMINENT RECESSION.

HE WAS MORE WORRIED ABOUT STAGFLATION.

DO THESE NUMBERS CHANGE THAT?

>> NO.

I MEAN, THIS IS NOT YET RECESSION TERRITORY.

EVEN THE REVISED NUMBERS ARE STILL POSITIVE.

AND IT WILL TAKE A WHILE FOR IT TO BE --ACTUALLY BE A RECESSION.

BUT THEY ARE CONSISTENT --TWO THINGS.

THEY'RE CONSISTENT WITH AN ECONOMY THAT IS SLOWING, AN ECONOMY THAT HAS FLATTENED OUT.

NOT TURNED INTO A NOSEDIVE, BUT IT HAS FLATTENED OUT.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF OTHER DATA SOURCES.

WE HAVE INTERVIEWS.

WE HAVE SURVEYS OF PURCHASING MANAGERS.

WE HAVE AUTOMATIC DATA PROCESSING, WHICH PRODUCES ITS OWN JOB NUMBERS.

EVERYBODY CONSIDERS THEM LESS RELIABLE THAN THE BLS, BUT IT'S AN INDEPENDENT SOURCE.

AND ALL THE DATA HAVE BEEN POINTING TO A SLOWING ECONOMY.

SO I THINK GOLDMAN SACHS HAS SAID BASICALLY, WHAT'S HAPPENED NOW IS THAT THE BLS DATA HAVE COME INTO LINE WITH THE OTHER INFORMATION WE HAVE.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS COMPLETELY AT ODDS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE'RE SEEING ON THE CONTRARY.

IT WAS THE STRONG JOB NUMBERS THAT WERE KIND OF INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE WERE SEEING ELSEWHERE.

THIS IS --YOU KNOW, THIS HAPPENS.

THIS IS NORMAL.

THE NUMBERS WERE --THE REVISION WAS UNUSUALLY BIG, BUT THESE ARE PRETTY WEIRD TIMES, WITH WILD CHANGES AND TERRA FREIGHTS AND ALL OF THAT.

SO YOU WOULD EXPECT THERE TO BE A LOT OF NOISE, A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING.

AND BASICALLY NOW WE HAVE A CONSISTENT STORY, WHICH SAYS NOT THAT THE U. S. HAS FALLEN OFF A CLIFF, BUT THAT ALL OF THE CHAOS THAT WE'RE SEEING AND POLICY AND JUST GENERALLY THE CRAZINESS OF THE WORLD RIGHT NOW IS TRANSLATING INTO A SLOWDOWN IN JOB GROWTH.

AND NOTHING SHARP.

IF THIS WAS AT ODDS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE RECEIVED, YOU WOULD SAY GEE, WHAT HAPPENED HERE?

BUT IT'S NOT.

>> AND GREG, IRONICALLY, THIS PERHAPS COULD GIVE PRESIDENT TRUMP WHAT HE'S BEEN DEMANDING OF HIS FED CHAIR POWELL FOR MANY, MANY MONTHS NOW, AND THAT IS CUTTING INTEREST RATES.

I BELIEVE THE ODDS OF A SEPTEMBER CUT SHARPLY WENT UP AFTER THIS JOBS REPORT.

WHAT SHOULD CONCERN THE FED CHAIR?

WHAT CONCERNS YOU MORE AT THIS POINT?

RISING INFLATION OR A SLOWING ECONOMY PERHAPS SLOWING JOBS MARKET?

>> WELL, THE TARIFFS THAT PUT ON SORT OF PUSHES THE ECONOMY IN A STAGFLATION DIRECTION.

IT TENDS TO RAISE INFLATION.

IT TENDS TO SLOW GROWTH THAT GIVES THE FED A VERY DIFFICULT CHOICE.

I THINK THE MARKET IS RIGHT.

THE CHANCE OF A RATE CUT IN THE NEXT MEETING HAS GONE UP WITH THIS JOBS REPORT.

BUT THERE ALSO KEEPING AN EYE ON INFLATION, AND THAT'S PRESUMABLY GOING TO START REFLECTING THE EFFECTS OF THE TARIFFS IN THE MONTHS TO COME.

>> GREG, YOU'VE LONG OPPOSED PROTECTIONISM WHAT YOU'VE VIEWED THESE TARIFFS TO BE.

MANY VOTERS SEE THEM AS A WAY OF BRINGING BACK U. S. MANUFACTURING.

IS THERE ANY POLITICAL LOGIC AT THIS POINT TO JUSTIFY SOME OF THESE TARIFFS?

AND GOING FORWARD, I MEAN, THERE IS ALSO THE ARGUMENT TO BE MADE ABOUT THE REVENUE COMING IN THAT IT'S VERY HARD TO BREAK OFF THIS REVENUE RUSH AS WELL.

>> NO, I'M OPPOSED TO THESE TARIFFS.

I THINK IT'S A TERRIBLE POLICY.

I DO THINK THAT WE END UP WITH 15% TARIFFS AND NO RETALIATION.

THAT'S NOT NEARLY AS BAD AS IT LOOKED ON SO-CALLED LIBERATION DAY WHEN TARIFFS WERE MUCH HIGHER AND IT LOOKED LIKELY THAT A LOT OF OUR TRADING PARTNERS WILL RETALIATE.

WE MIGHT END UP IN AN OKAY PLACE.

NOT AN IDEAL PLACE, BUT AN OKAY PLACE.

IT'S HARD TO KNOW EXACTLY HOW THIS IS GOING TO END UP.

WE HAVE SORT OF DEALS WITH EUROPE AND JAPAN.

NOT SO MUCH WITH CANADA, WHICH IS ONE OF OUR MAJOR TRADING PARTNERS.

SO MAYBE TRUMP WILL GET TO A REASONABLE PLACE, IF NOT A GREAT PLACE.

BUT I'M STILL WORRIED.

AND I THINK THIS WHOLE TARIFF EPISODE WAS A STEP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

PARTLY BECAUSE IT CREATED A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY.

REMEMBER, THESE TARIFFS MAY BE CHALLENGED IN COURT.

AND UNTIL THE SUPREME COURT SIDES WHETHER TRUMP HAS THE AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE THESE TARIFFS, THINGS ARE NOT GOING GET RESOLVED.

>> IN THE BASELINE, I THINK TARIFFS LOO LIKELY BE FINE FOR THE PRESIDENT.

SOME OF THE OTHER TARIFFS, THE SEC TO RECALL TARIFFS THAT HE HAS ALLOWED AND LEGALLY HAS TO RIGHT TO IMPOSE, SOME OF THESE OTHER TARIFFS THAT MAY ACTUALLY SEE AN INTERVENTION PERHAPS LEGALLY.

PAUL, YOU CALL THIS A TAX ON CONSUMERS.

ARE CONSUMERS SEEING THE FULL EFFECTS OF THIS TAX JUST YET?

>> NOT YET.

WHAT WE SEE SO FAR IN THE DATA IS THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS BORN THE COST OF THE TARIFFS.

THERE IS NOTHING IN THE DATA SAYING THAT FOREIGNERS ARE EATING THEM.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART U. S. BUSINESSES HAVE MOSTLY BEEN EATING THE TARIFFS.

THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PASSING IT THROUGH TO CONSUMERS, PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY WERE HOPING THAT THE TARIFFS WOULD COME DOWN A LOT.

THAT WON'T LAST.

AND IF YOU THINK THAT TRUMP'S BLOWUP OVER THE JOBS NUMBER IS UPSETTING, WAIT UNTIL WE START TO SEE THIS IN CONSUMER PRICES, WHICH WE ALMOST CERTAINLY WILL, POSSIBLY AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK.

WE'RE GOING GET ANOTHER CPR REPORT ON TUESDAY.

AND BUT IF NOT THEN, THEN A MONTH OR TWO DOWN THE ROAD WE'RE GOING TO BE SEEING INFLATION PICKING UP.

AND I THINK IT'S A VERY SAFE PREDICTION THAT TRUMP WILL CLAIM THAT THOSE ARE RIGGED NUMBERS AND POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.

SO WE'RE GOING TO BE SEEING A LOT OF BAD STUFF.

AND, LOOK, ACTUALLY, IN TERMS OF THE TARIFFS, HOW BAD ARE THEY?

IF YOU TAKE A SERIOUS ECONOMIC ANALYSIS, I SUBSTACKED ABOUT THIS OVER THE WEEKEND.

THEY PROBABLY CUT A FRACTION OF A PERCENT OFF THE U. S. GDP IN THE LONG RUN, WHICH IS BAD BUT NOT HORRIFIC.

BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTICE THAT AMONG OTHER THINGS, THE UNITED STATES, WE HAVE TRADE AGREEMENTS.

WE HAVE FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS WITH CANADA, MEXICO, SOUTH KOREA.

WE HAVE NEGOTIATED TRADE AGREEMENTS WITH ALMOST EVERYBODY ELSE.

AND EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE DONE IS A FLAP VIOLATION.

THE UNITED STATES HAS JUST BROKEN TRADE AGREEMENTS -- >> INCLUDING AN AGREEMENT THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF NEGOTIATED DURING HIS FIRST TERM, THE U. S. MCA WITH CANADA AND MEXICO AS WELL.

GREG, BEFORE WE GO JUST QUICKLY, YOU DON'T FOLLOW, NEITHER ONE OF YOU FOLLOW THE STOCK MARKET.

YOU FOLLOW THE DATA.

BUT ARE YOU SURPRISED TO SEE THAT THE MARKETS CONTINUE TO AT LEAST UNTIL NOW SHRUG OFF THIS TYPE OF JOLTING HEADLINE AFTER HEADLINE, THE PRESIDENT FIRING THE BLS COMMISSIONER, THREATENING TO FIRE THE FED CHIEF, ON AND ON, THESE TARIFFS EVEN.

THEY'VE SEEMED TO HAVE FACTORED THAT ALL IN THUS FAR.

ASIDE FROM FRIDAY'S SELL-OFF, I BELIEVE THE MARKETS ARE EVEN UP TODAY.

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>> THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS THAT AFFECT STOCK MARKETS.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

THE TARIFFS ARE GENERALLY NEGATIVE FOR THE STOCK MARKET.

BUT I THINK THE AI ENTHUSIASM, IS BIGGER IN TERMS OF AFFECTING WHAT'S GOING ON IN MARKET RIGHT NOW.

>> ALL RIGHT.

NEVER A DULL MOMENT, GENTLEMEN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

PAUL KRUGMAN, GREG MANKIW.

RARE THAT BOTH OF YOU WOULD COME ON AND AGREE ON ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ISSUE WE RAISE, BUT THUS ARE THE TIMES WE'RE IN.

I APPRECIATE IT.

THANKS FOR BREAKING IT DOWN.

>> THANKS A LOT.

> >> PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SPECIAL ENVOY STEVE WITKOFF IS GOING BACK TO RUSSIA.

HE'LL POTENTIALLY MEET WITH VALENTINE'S VLADIMIR PUTIN ON WEDNESDAY.

IN KYIV, THERE IS LITTLE EXPECTATION FOR A BREAKTHROUGH WITH THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT.

THERE IS HOPE THAT THE CHANGE IN RHETORIC AND TRUMP'S TOUGHER STANCE WITH PUTIN MAY LEAD TO INCREASE ED SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE, AND THEY CERTAINLY NEED IT.

UKRAINIANS CONTINUE TO PAY THE PRICE OF THIS WAR WITH THEIR LIVES.

31 PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN A APARTMENT BUILDING STRIKE IN KYIV LAST WEEK.

ALEXANDER GABUEV IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE CARNEGIE RUSSIA EURASIA CENTER.

HE JOINS ME NOW.

IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

TENSIONS HAVE BEEN HEIGHTENED OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS AS THE PRESIDENT ORDERED TWO NUCLEAR SUBMARINES TO BE POSITIONED, QUOTE, IN THE APPROPRIATE REGIONS ON FRIDAY FOLLOWING INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS THAT WE'VE ALL COME TO KNOW SADLY ALL TOO WELL FROM FORMER RUSSIAN PRESIDENT DMITRY MEDVEDEV.

HERE IS HOW PRESIDENT TRUMP RESPONDED TO THIS.

>> FORMER PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA WHO IS NOW JUDGED ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT COUNSELS, MEDVEDEV SAID SOME VERY BAD THINGS TALKING ABOUT NUCLEAR.

WHEN YOU SAY NUCLEAR, MY EYES LIGHT UP AND I SAY WE BETTER BE CAREFUL BECAUSE IT'S THE ULTIMATE THREAT.

HE SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID IT.

HE'S GOT A FRESH MOUTH.

HE SAID THINGS IN THE PAST TOO.

WE ALWAYS WANT TO BE READY.

SO I HAVE SENT TO THE REGION TWO NUCLEAR SUBMARINES.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE HIS WORDS ARE ONLY WORDS AND NOTHING MORE THAN THAT.

>> HIS WORDS TYPICALLY, AT LEAST FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS HAVE BEEN JUST THOSE WORDS THAT TAKEN TO SOCIAL MEDIA.

TALKING ABOUT MEDVEDEV, YES, HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNTRY AND THEN HEED THAT THAT SWITCHEROO WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN.

HE IS NOT KNOWN TO BE IN PUTIN'S INNER CIRCLE OR VERY CLOSE WITH HIM, AND THUS MANY WERE SURPRISED ACTUALLY BY THIS MOVE BY PRESIDENT TRUMP.

WHAT WAS THE REACTION IN THE KREMLIN?

HOW DID YOU RESPOND TO IT?

>> I THINK THAT PRESIDENT MEDVEDEV, FORMER PRESIDENT MEDVEDEV HAS A SPECIAL ROLE.

HE IS THE TROLL IN CHIEF.

SO HIS MISSION PARTIALLY IS TROLLING THE WESTERN ESTABLISHMENT, AND IN PARTICULAR GET UNDER THE SKIN OF WESTERN LEADERS, INCLUDING PRESIDENT TRUMP AND SCARE THEM WITH RUSSIAN NUKES OR WHATEVER RUSSIA CAN DO IN RESPONSE FOR THE WEST HELPING UKRAINIAN SELF-DEFENSE EFFORT.

AND THIS TIME AROUND HE HAS FINALLY GOTTEN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTENTION.

I WOULDN'T PAY TOO MUCH ATTENTION TO THAT NUCLEAR SAY ABOUTER RATTLING ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE.

I THINK THAT THE MILITARY PROFESSIONALS KNOW WHAT THE REAL SIGNALS ARE AND WHAT THE FAKE SIGNALS ARE.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER PRESIDENT TRUMP DISTINGUISHES BETWEEN THEM, AND WHETHER HE GETS A PROPER MILITARY ADVICE TO WHAT ARE THE RUSSIAN SIGNALS THAT YOU SHOULD RESPOND TO AND REACT FORCEFULLY IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH DETERRENCE, AND WHAT IS JUST NOISE, WHICH FORMER PRESIDENT MEDVEDEV OBVIOUSLY IS.

I HOPE THAT HE IS GETTING PROPER MILITARY ADVICE.

>> MAYBE YOU'RE NOT THE RIGHT PERSON TO ASK.

YOU FOCUS MORE ON THE KREMLIN INSIDERS AND WHO HAS PUTIN'S EAR, BUT WHO WOULD BE ADVISING TRUMP ABOUT JUST THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS PROFESSIONALS STILL IN UNIFORM IN THE PENTAGON AND IN THE U. S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.

WE SHOULD DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE THEATRICS OF TRUMP'S REACTION TO ANYTHING.

AND HIS REAL INTENT TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE RUSSIAN LEADERSHIP.

AND FOR NOW WE HAVE YET TO SEE ANY REALLY POWERFUL STEPS TO PUT PRESSURE ON RUSSIA.

WE ARE IN A BETTER PLACE WHERE WE HAVE BEEN COMPARED TO AFTER THE FALLOUT OF PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY'S MEETING WITH TRUMP AND HIS VICE PRESIDENT J. D. VANCE IN THE OVAL OFFICE, THE U. S. IS BACK TO SHARING INTELLIGENCE.

THE U. S. IS BACK TO SUPPLYING WEAPONS TO UKRAINE.

HOWEVER, ALL OF THE SUPPLIES ARE COMMERCIAL.

IT'S NOT THAT THE U. S. IS READY TO --THE PRESIDENT IS READY TO GO TO THE CONGRESS AND ASK --YOU ASK CONGRESS TO PASS ANOTHER SUPPLEMENTAL TO PROVIDE WEAPONS THAT ARE NEEDED TO UKRAINE.

SO WITH THAT, VLADIMIR PUTIN FEELS THAT HE IS PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT TIME IS ON HIS SIDE, AND HE CAN DICTATE THE TERMS OF HOW THE RESOLUTION OF THE CONFLICT AND WAR END WILL BE UNFOLDING.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE A DEAL THAT'S NOT ON HIS TERMS.

THAT'S VERY CLEAR.

>> SO PUTIN STILL FEELS CONFIDENT DESPITE THIS DEADLINE FAST APPROACHING ON FRIDAY, I BELIEVE, THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SEEMINGLY OUT OF THE FLU BLEU MADE CLEAR, WENT FROM 50 DAYS TO 10 TO 12 DAYS LAST WEEK.

AND THAT IS THE THREAT TO IMPOSE SECONDARY SANCTIONS UNLESS RUSSIA WAS WILLING TO MAKE A CEASEFIRE DEAL NOW.

HE SPOKE OUT, PRESIDENT TRUMP, AGAIN TODAY AGAINST INDIA IN PARTICULAR, ANNOUNCING 25% SECONDARY SANCTIONS OR TARIFFS ON THE COUNTRY FOR CONTINUING TO PURCHASE RUSSIAN OIL.

ANY PRESSURE FROM THAT ON PRESIDENT PUTIN, THOUGH?

IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE THERE IS MUCH.

>> WE'LL SEE WHETHER THE THREAT ON INDIA ACTUALLY MATERIALIZES AND HOW INDIA REACTS.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, IF NOT TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE RUSSIAN OIL AND OIL PRODUCTS FROM THE GLOBAL MARKET WITHOUT SEEING A MAJOR GROWTH IN THE OIL PRICES, WHICH PROBABLY PRESIDENT TRUMP DOESN'T WANT TO SEE BECAUSE THAT WILL AFFECT THE PRICE AT THE PUMP IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND HE SAID ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE HIGH OIL PRICES.

SO INDIA AND CHINA TOGETHER IMPORT ABOUT 80% OF OIL THAT RUSSIA SHIPS TO THE GLOBAL OIL MARKET.

AND WITH INDIA GOING AWAY, THE BULK OF THAT WILL FLOW TO CHINA ANY WAY, BECAUSE CHINA HAS SAID VERY CLEARLY FOR NOW THAT IT WILL NOT, NOT STOP BUYING OIL FROM RUSSIA.

SO IF INDIA JUST TURNS AWAY FROM RUSSIAN OIL, AND NOW IT'S ABOUT 40% OF WHAT INDIA IMPORTS, THAT'S A LOT.

THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO REPLACE.

BUT TECHNICALLY, POSSIBLE IF INDIA TURNS TO PRODUCERS IN THE GULF.

SAUDI ARABIA BRINGS SOME MORE OIL AND THE EUROPEANS BUY MORE FROM THE U. S. , IT'S POSSIBLE TO BRIDGE THIS GAP FOR INDIA, BUT NOT FOR INDIA AND CHINA TOGETHER.

AND SINCE CHINA IS STILL BEHIND VLADIMIR PUTIN, IT'S LIKELY THAT THE CASH THAT'S SO MUCH NEEDED TO FUND PUTIN'S WAR ENTERPRISE WILL STILL CONTINUE TO THROW INTO THE KREMLIN'S WAR CHEST.

>> AND YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE A CHINA EXPERT AS WELL.

THE SAME TYPE OF THREATS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS LEVELING AGAINST INDIA.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD YET AGAINST CHINA.

THEY TOO ARE IN THE MIDST OF TARIFF NEGOTIATIONS AND A TRADE DEAL WHICH THAT DEADLINE IS LOOMING AS WELL.

DO YOU SEE CHINA PERHAPS STEPPINGS IN AND SUPPLEMENTING WHATEVER INDIA, IF THEY ULTIMATELY DECIDE TO CUT SOME OF THEIR PURCHASE OF RUSSIAN OIL, DO YOU SEE CHINA ACTUALLY DOING THAT?

>> I'M NOT SURE THAT CHINA CAN FULLY SUPPLEMENT RUSSIA WITH WHAT INDIA WAS BUYING.

AND, AGAIN, INDIA HAS NOT CUT ITS SHIPMENTS OF RUSSIAN OIL YET.

WE'VE HEARD SOME NEWS OF LARGE INDIAN OIL PROCESSING COMPANIES SHIFTING TO BUYING SOME MORE CRUDE FROM THE GULF INSTEAD OF RUSSIA, BUT INDIA HAS NOT YET ANNOUNCED IT WILL CANCEL ALL OF ITS PURCHASES FROM RUSSIA.

AND AGAIN, THAT WILL BE TECHNICALLY NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT REALLY DIFFICULT TO DO.

FOR CHINA, WE'VE HEARD THAT IN STOCKHOLM, WHEN THE SECRETARY OF TREASURY WAS TALKING TO CHINESE FIRST DEPUTY PRIME, SPECIAL ENVOY OF CHAIRMAN XI JINPING IN DEALING WITH THE UNITED STATES THAT CHINA IS NOT READY TO THROW RUSSIA UNDER THE BUS, INCLUDING ON ENERGY DELIVERIES.

AND IT'S UNLIKELY THAT CHINA WILL TAKE ALL OF THE OIL, IF UNDER HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO THAT INDIA CANCELS ALL OF THE CONTRACTS WITH RUSSIA, BUT IT CAN TAKE SOME.

AND DEFINITELY EVEN THE 40% OF RUSSIAN EXPORTS STILL BEING ABLE TO FLOW TO CHINA WILL FUND PUTIN'S WAR MACHINE FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO ONE YEAR.

AND IN THE KREMLIN CALCULUS BASED ON EVERYTHING THAT WE KNOW, THAT'S MORE THAN ENOUGH TO CRUSH UKRAINIAN RESOLVE AND FORCE KYIV INTO A NEGOTIATION ON PUTIN'S TERMS.

WHETHER PUTIN IS RIGHT OR WRONG ON THIS PREDICTION, ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

BUT AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT THE KREMLIN IS THINKING RIGHT NOW.

>> AS IT RELATES TO CHINA, YOU WROTE FOR THE FINANCIAL TIMES, "BEIJING HAS DEMONSTRATED ITS ABILITY TO CREATE ADAPTABLE INFRASTRUCTURE DESIGNED TO SUPPORT RUSSIA, AND THIS IS NOW GOING ON FOR OVER THREE YEARS. "

I DO WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT UKRAINE NEEDS MOST OF ALL, AND THAT IS ADDITIONAL AID AND MILITARY EQUIPMENT.

AND AS YOU NOTED, IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS ANYWHERE NEAR GOING BACK TO CONGRESS AND ASKING FOREANOTHER SUPPLEMENTAL.

BUT THE U. S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO, MATT WHITAKER SAID TODAY THAT HE EXPECTS MANY MORE COUNTRIES TO ANNOUNCE OVER THE COMING WEEKS THAT THEY WILL PROVIDE FUNDS FOR THE AMERICAN MILITARY TO PROVIDE EQUIPMENT AND AMMUNITION.

IS THIS PLAN, DO YOU THINK SOMETHING THAT PUTIN TAKES SERIOUSLY?

AND IS IT A NEW WAY, PERHAPS, TO HELP FUND AND SUPPLY UKRAINE WITH WHAT THEY NEED TO MAKE THIS WAR AT LEAST POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO CONTINUE FIGHTING IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS TO COME?

>> I THINK THERE ARE THREE ELEMENTS HERE.

NUMBER ONE, THIS IS WELCOME NEWS.

AND IT'S GOOD THAT EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE READY TO FUND PURCHASES OF MUNITIONS AND VARIOUS EQUIPMENT FROM THE U. S. THAT'S REALLY NEEDED TO SUSTAIN UKRAINIAN SELF-DEFENSE EFFORT.

PARTICULARLY WE'RE TALKING AIR DEFENSE, PATRIOTS THAT ARE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND EXCEPT FOR THE U. S. AND UNFORTUNATELY, AND THAT'S THE SECOND POINT, A LOT OF THIS EQUIPMENT IS IN SHORT SUPPLY.

NO MILITARY WANTS TO GIVE AWAY ITS OWN MUNITION IF IT FEELS THAT ITS STORAGE IS NEAR EMPTY.

AND THAT'S THE SITUATION IN THE U. S. MILITARY.

AND THAT'S THE SITUATION IN MANY OF THE EUROPEAN MILITARIES.

SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NEW ORDERS, NOT THE CONFIDENCE OF THIS MILITARY TO TRANSFER THE EXISTING STASH OF THIS VITAL MUNITIONS TO UKRAINIANS.

SO HERE WE MIGHT HAVE SOME DELIVERY PROBLEMS AND THE TIME LAG.

AND THE THIRD ELEMENT, WHAT'S REALLY CRUCIAL FOR UKRAINIAN SELF-DEFENSE EFFORT RIGHT NOW ARE DRONES AND INVESTMENT INTO DRONES PRODUCTION, BECAUSE THE BAD NEWS IS THAT UKRAINE WAS IN THE LEAD OF DRONES OVER THE LAST 2.

5, 3 YEARS, BUT RUSSIA IS NOT ONLY CATCHING UP, BUT SURPASSING UKRAINE.

AND UNLESS THERE IS MAJOR INFLOW OF DRONES AND FUNDING INTO UKRAINIAN PRODUCTION OF DRONES, UKRAINE IS REALLY ON ITS BACK FOOT AND PRESSED AGAINST THE WALL.

>> YEAH, WHICH IS WHY PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WAS REALLY PUSHING FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TO JOIN IN ON INVESTING IN UKRAINE ON A JOINT DRONES PROJECT, BOTH FOR UKRAINE GOING FORWARD AND THE UNITED STATES.

ONE COULD SAY THAT THE DRONE INVESTMENT IS SORT OF THE NEW RARE EARTH MINERALS INVESTMENT THAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IS TRYING TO DANGLE IN FRONT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR CONTINUED SUPPORT.

ALEXANDER GABUEV, ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

TAKE CARE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GREAT BEING WITH YOU.

> >> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, ISRAEL IS CONSIDERING EXPANDING THE WAR IN GAZA.

THIS IS ACCORDING TO AN ISRAELI OFFICIAL.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU WANTS TO PUSH FOR FREEING HOSTAGES THROUGH, QUOTE, MILITARY DEFEAT OF HAMAS.

THIS AFTER SHOCKING VIDEO WAS RELEASED BY HAMAS ON FRIDAY SHOWING TWO ISRAELI CAPTIVES, EVYATAR DAVID AND ROM BRASLAVSKI, EMACIATED AND FRAGILE.

>> THEY ARE ON THE ABSOLUTE BRINK OF DEATH.

IN THEIR CURRENT UNIMAGINABLE CONDITION, THEY HAVE ONLY DAYS LEFT TO LIVE.

HAMAS IS USING EVYATAR IN ONE OF THE MOST CALCULATED AND CRUELLEST WAYS IMAGINABLE.

>> THE IMAGES HAVE DRAWN OUTRAGE WITH PRESIDENT MACRON CALLING THEM UNBEARABLE.

TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PROTESTERS TOOK TO THE STREETS IN TEL AVIV OVER THE WEEKEND, DEMANDING THE RETURN OF ALL HOSTAGES.

MEANWHILE, NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT CONTINUES TO DENY CLAIMS OF STARVATION IN THE ENCLAVE, DESPITE A GROWING NUMBER OF HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS CALLING OUT THIS MAN MADE CALAMITY.

THE MOST DESPERATE PALESTINIANS RISK THEIR LIVES TO GET FOOD, WITH LITTLE OR NO PROGRESS ON CEASEFIRE NEGOTIATIONS, THE NIGHTMARE CONTINUES FOR ALL IN THE STRIP.

AXIOS GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT BARAK RAVID JOINS US NOW.

IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

FIRST, LET ME GET YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS NEWS THAT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU IS CONSIDERING EXPANDING A NEW GAZA OFFENSIVE AND SEIZING THE ENTIRE ENCLAVE, PERHAPS.

WHAT MORE ARE YOU LEARNING?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT HIS PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

AND THERE ARE REPORTERS THAT NETANYAHU HAS MADECALLY MADE UP HIS MIND THAT HE IS GOING TO ORDER A FULL OCCUPATION OF THE GAZA STRIP, INCLUDING PLACES WHERE THE IDF EITHER HASN'T OPERATED IN LIKE THE CENTRAL CAMPS IN GAZA, OR IN GAZA CITY, WHERE THE IDF OPERATED IN THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR, BUT HASN'T BEEN OPERATING THERE FOR A LONG TIME.

AND THOSE ARE REGIONS THAT THE IDF HASN'T BEEN OPERATING IN BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE HOSTAGES BEING HELD THERE.

AND THE IDF WAS CONCERNED THAT AN OPERATION THERE WILL MOST LIKELY LEAD TO THEIR DEATH.

SO NOW NETANYAHU AND HIS PEOPLE ARE SAYING NO, WE'RE ACTUALLY CONSIDERING DOING THAT.

AND WHAT NETANYAHU AND HIS PEOPLE ARE NOT SAYING IS HOW IS THIS GOING TO GET THEM CLOSER TO GETTING THE LIVE HOSTAGES BACK HOME ALIVE.

AND THE FAMILIES OF THE HOSTAGES ARE EXTREMELY CONCERNED THAT AN EXPANSION OF THE WAR INTO THOSE AREAS WOULD LEAD TO THOSE HOSTAGES BEING KILLED BY EITHER HAMAS OR THE IDF MILITARY OPERATIONS.

>> I SPOKE WITH THE FAMILY, BROTHER ACTUALLY OF ONE OF THOSE HOSTAGES IN THAT HORRIBLE VIDEO WHERE YOU EVEN HAVE HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS COMING OUT AND SAYING THAT IT BRINGS BACK TERRIBLE MEMORIES AND IMAGES FOR THEM.

AND THAT IS OF EVYATAR DAVID, HAMAS RELEASED A VIDEO OF HIM.

PROPAGANDA VIDEO THAT WAS TOO UNBEARABLE FOR HIS BROTHER TO WATCH.

BUT HE DID SPEAK OUT IN ISRAEL, AND THEN TO ME --AND HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

THAT'S WHY HAMAS PULLED OUT OF THE NEGOTIATIONS RECENTLY.

THAT'S WHY HE IS USING MY BROTHER IN HIS TWISTED, SICK EXPERIMENT ON HUMAN LIVES.

BECAUSE HE'S NOT PRESSURED ENOUGH.

BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH LEVERAGES ARE PUTTING PRESSURE ON HIM.

AND RIGHT NOW, ALL THE LEADERS OF THE WORLD, ALL THE LEADERS OF ALL NATIONS SHOULD STAND UP TOGETHER, UNITED, AND PUT EVERY OUNCE OF PRESSURE THEY CAN ON HAMAS.

HAMAS MUST BE BEGGING FOR A DEAL, AND THEY MUST BE BEGGING FOR CEASEFIRE.

>> SO YOU HEAR THAT, BARAK, AND THIS IS SOMETHING YOU'VE BEEN REPORTING OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS, THAT THESE CEASEFIRE TALKS, THIS TIME AROUND THE IMPEDIMENT HAS BEEN HAMAS, THAT THEY'RE THE ONES AFRAID TO SIGN OFF ON DAY.

SAYING HIS BROTHER HAS DAYS TO LIVE GIVEN THE CONDITION HE WAS IN THIS THAT VIDEO.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT THE PRESSURE THAT IS BEING PUT ON HAMAS?

COULD MORE BE DONE, PERHAPS, TO GET THEM TO AGREE TO A DEAL?

>> FIRST, YOU KNOW, WE ALL SAW THOSE VIDEOS OF EVYATAR DAVID AND ROM BRASLAVSKI, THE TWO HOSTAGES HELD BY HAMAS AND THE ISLAMIC JIHAD.

AND I THINK THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE VIDEOS YOU REALIZE THAT ANY MINUTE IS CRUCIAL HERE.

AND THEREFORE THERE NEEDS TO BE A DEAL THAT WOULD LEAD FOR THEIR RELEASE, ALIVE, AND BRINGING THEM BACK HOME TO THE FAMILIES.

I THINK THAT LAST WEEK WHEN HAMAS PRESENTED THIS TO THE GAZA DEAL PROPOSAL, IT WAS NOT A YES.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IT WAS NOT A NO.

THE GAPS REMAINED AFTER HAMAS GAVE ITS RESPONSE, BUT THE GAPS WERE NOT SUCH THAT YOU CANNOT SEE HOW YOU CAN BRIDGE THEM.

THEY WERE BRIDGEABLE.

AND I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT ISRAEL AND THE U. S. DECIDED TO PULL BACK FROM THE NEGOTIATIONS WAS A MISTAKE, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK TEN DAYS AFTER, EVERYTHING IS STUCK.

THERE IS A STALEMATE.

AND A STALEMATE ALLOWED HAMAS TO CHANGE COURSE AND START FOCUSING ON THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA, RATHER THAN ON CONTINUING THE NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE RELEASE OF THE HOSTAGES.

AND I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE AT A LOGJAM DOES NOT SERVE THE INTERESTS OF THE HOSTAGES OR THEIR FAMILY.

>> BARAK, QUICKLY, WHAT IS THE STATUS CURRENTLY OF THE AID SITUATION THERE AND GETTING MORE AID INTO GAZA.

>> SO THERE'S AN INTERNATIONAL EFFORT TO BRING MORE AID IN.

WE'RE STILL WAITING TO HEAR WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO DO.

HE SAID ON SUNDAY THAT THE U. S. IS GOING TO GIVE MORE MONEY.

BUT HE ALSO SAID THAT ISRAEL WILL HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE FED.

BUT I THINK THAT MORE BROADLY, THE MAIN QUESTION RIGHT NOW, TO ME, AT LEAST, IS AFTER SIX MONTHS OF THIS WAR TAKING PLACE UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S WATCH, THE QUESTION IS TO ME WHETHER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO CONTINUE FOLLOWING BENJAMIN NETANYAHU'S POLICY, OR WHETHER HE IS GOING TO TRY AND PUT FORWARD A NEW POLICY AND GET NETANYAHU TO ALIGN HIMSELF WITH HIM.

IT'S STILL A QUESTION MARK.

I'M NOT SURE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SUPPORTS AN EXPANSION OF THIS WAR.

AND I THINK THAT AN EXPANSION OF THIS WAR, AT LEAST IN MY ASSESSMENT WOULD LEAD TO ANOTHER YEAR OF WAR IN GAZA, WHICH MEANS A TOTAL HIJACKING OF TRUMP'S FIRST HALF OF HIS SECOND TERM.

AND I'M NOT SURE THIS IS SOMETHING PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS.

>> AND AS YOU SEE THE DATA, THE SURVEYS IN THE POLLS, I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S SOMETHING MOST ISRAELIS WANT AT THIS POINT EITHER, ANOTHER YEAR OF WAR.

BARAK RAVID, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> WELL, NOW AS WE JUST DISCUSSED, THE U. N. WARNS A FAMINE IS UNFOLDING BEFORE OUR EYES.

WE TAKE A MOMENT TO CONSIDER THE HERITAGE UNDER THREAT.

TRADITIONAL PALESTINIAN FOOD HAS LONG BEEN A SOURCE OF IDENTITY AND MEMORY FOR THE DIASPORA.

SAMI TAMIMI IS AN AWARD WINNING CHEF WHO WAS RAISED IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM AND USES COOKING TO TELL THE STORY OF PALESTINE.

HE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS HIS NEW COOK BACK, "BOUSTANY," AND THE CULTURAL RESILIENCE OF HIS HOMELAND.

>> THANKS, BIANNA.

SAMI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US ONCE AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOUR NEW BOOK IS "BOUSTANY. "

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

>> IN ARABIC IT MEANS "MY GARDEN. "

IT'S RELATED TO THE WHOLE NARRATIVE OF THE BOOK WHERE I TALK ABOUT MY GRANDFATHER'S GARDEN IN HEBRON WHERE HE USED TO SPEND QUITE A LOT OF TIME THERE, ESPECIALLY IN THE SUMMER.

AND I TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT CONNECT TO A LOT OF THINGS.

I ALWAYS KIND OF REMINISCE ON FOOD AND MEMORIES.

AND THIS IS WHAT REALLY KIND OF CONNECTS ME TO, YOU KNOW, MY PALESTINIAN FAMILY, THE HERITAGE, THE FOOD AS WELL.

IT'S A VERY, VERY STRONG ELEMENT IN OUR KIND OF CULTURE, BUT ALSO THE FAMILY.

AND MY FATHER JUST LOVED HIS LITTLE GARDEN, THIS LAND THAT HE HAD.

AND HE GREW SO MANY THINGS, VEGETABLES AND FRUIT, AND YOU NAME IT.

>> IS THAT WHY THE BOOK FOCUSES ON VEGETABLES?

VEGETABLES AND FRUITS?

>> IN A WAY.

BUT I THINK I STARTED TOOKING SOME OF THE DISHES AT LOCKDOWN WHEN COVID WAS ON.

AND I WAS IN ITALY.

WE HAVE A LITTLE PLACE IN ITALY.

AND THE CLIMATE IS VERY SIMILAR TO PALESTINE.

SO JUST TO GO BACK TO CONNECT.

I WAS HOME SICK.

I WANTED TO BE WITH THE FAMILY.

MY SIBLINGS, AND EAT WITH THEM, AND JUST KIND OF FEEL A LITTLE BIT MORE CONNECTED.

SO I STARTED GOING OUT AND FORAGING FOR THINGS.

>> YOU HAVE SUCH STRONG MEMORIES OF FLAVOR, FLAVOR AND SMELLS.

EVEN NOW, IS THIS --DO YOU THINK THIS IS BECAUSE YOU'RE A CHEF OR IS THIS BECAUSE YOU'RE A HUMAN?

>> BOTH.

BUT I THINK ALSO, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP IN A FOOD OBSESS KIND OF SURROUNDING, YOU KNOW, FAMILIES.

I REMEMBER VIVIDLY SITTING DOWN TO HAVE BREAKFAST, AND THEY ALREADY TALK ABOUT LUNCH AND DINNER AND WHAT'S IN SEASON, WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO COOK TOMORROW.

WHICH AUNTY IS COMING.

SO WHAT DISH ARE THEY GOING TO DO.

SO IT ALL KIND OF STAYS WITH ME.

BUT THOSE I REMEMBER, ALSO, ANYBODY WHO KIND OF IMMIGRATES TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY AND THE CULTURE, TO STAY CONNECTED, YOU TEND TO KIND OF DWELL ON THE FLAVORS THAT YOU KIND OF GREW UP ON.

AND AS A CHEF, OF COURSE, I BORROWED FROM THE PALESTINIAN KITCHEN ALL OF MY CAREER.

AND THE LAST 20 YEARS HAVE BEEN COOKING A LOT OF PALESTINIAN, WHICH ALSO, I MEAN, I FIND IT REALLY IMPORTANT THAT I WANT TO DO THAT TO PROMOTE THE PALESTINIAN CULTURE AND FOOD.

BUT ALSO BECAUSE IT'S THE KITCHEN THAT I UNDERSTAND 100%.

AND I FEEL TOTAL KIND OF COMFORT AND COMFORTABLE WITH IT.

>> YOU BECAME FAMOUS AS PART OF THE TEAM AT OTOLENGI IN LONDON.

IT'S ITS OWN STORY.

A CULTURAL TOUCHSTONE, A PLACE OF AMAZING FOOD.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICAN FOOD OR THE FOOD THAT WE CALL SOUL FOOD, YOU KNOW, IN AMERICA, A LOT OF US GREW UP EATING IT.

AND HE THOUGHT OF IT AS HOME FOOD.

WE DIDN'T THINK OF IT AS RESTAURANT FOOD.

WE DIDN'T THINK OF IT AS CUISINE.

I WONDERED WHEN YOU WERE COOKING IN THESE RESTAURANTS, YOU WERE HEAD CHEF, YOU WERE IN MAJOR CITIES AROUND THE WORLD, DOING YOUR THING, I WONDER, DID YOU THINK OF PALESTINIAN FOOD IN THAT WAY?

THIS IS FOR HOME WHERE IS THIS IS FOR WORK?

AS DIFFERENT FROM WORK.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THERE ARE DISHES YOU ONLY EAT AT HOME BECAUSE THEY ARE --I MEAN, ALTHOUGH THEY ARE MADE WITH LOVE, BUT THEY TAKE A LOT OF TIME AND CARE.

AND SOMETIME THEY DON'T --THEY'RE NOT SUITABLE FOR A RESTAURANT SERVING.

AND I KIND OF FROM AN EARLY KIND OF AGE, I WANTED TO --I WAS REALLY LOYAL TO THE TRADITIONAL PALESTINIAN.

I WANTED TO EAT IT AND I WANTED TO COOK IT AT HOME, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO SERVE IT IN A RESTAURANT BECAUSE I WANTED TO DO A MIXTURE OF SOMETHING ELSE TO USE ALL THE ELEMENTS.

BEING LOYAL TO THE DISHES, BUT NOT RUIN THEM.

IF YOU JUST ADD IN KIND OF DIFFERENT LAYERS AND TEXTURES AND FLAVORING TO PRESENT IT IN A KIND OF RESTAURANT KIND OF WAY.

WE DIDN'T DO THAT SO MUCH AT THE RESTAURANT, THE COOKBOOK STARTED LIKE THAT.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE FOR YEARS, SOME OF THESE DISHES ARE FAMILIAR.

IT SORT OF BEEN SERVED UNDER THE RUBRIC OF MEDITERRANEAN, RIGHT.

BIG PART OF THE WORLD, BIG REGION.

MIDDLE EASTERN.

AND I WONDER DO YOU THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO SEE PALESTINIAN FOOD AS PART OF THE CULTURE OF THESE PEOPLE IN THIS PLACE?

>> YEP.

AND THANKS TO A LOT OF SHE WAS AND AUTHORS AND PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT IT.

AND ALSO BECAUSE PEOPLE NO LONGER WANT TO WHEN YOU PRESENT THEM WITH A COOKBOOK FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, WHERE IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

IT'S A HUGE PART OF THE WORLD, FROM EUROPE TO THE GULF, IT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, HALF OF THE WORLD YOU CAN KIND OF PUT UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF MEDITERRANEAN.

AND I PERSONALLY DON'T LIKE THIS KIND OF --THESE KIND OF COOKBOOKS BECAUSE THEY DON'T OFFER YOU ANYTHING THAT KIND ORIGINAL IN THE WAY.

THEY DON'T FOCUS ON ONE PLACE.

BUT ALSO, PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO KIND OF FOCUS ON WHERE IT IS FROM, AND ALSO THE HISTORY OF IT, THE BACKGROUND, THE TRADITION.

PEOPLE ASK ME TO THE DAY WHAT KIND OF TAHINI I USE OR WHAT KIND OF SUMAC, CAN YOU GIVE US A BRAND, WHERE IT COMES FROM.

IT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE.

AND ALSO, PALESTINIAN BECAUSE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW FOR SO MANY YEARS NEVER HAD THE CREDIT FOR PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BORROWING PALESTINIAN DISHES, PUTTING THEM OUT THERE, AND NOT GIVING THEM THE CREDIT.

BUT ALSO AS A PALESTINIAN, I THINK PEOPLE WERE IN SUCH A SHOCK OF WHAT HAPPENED THAT FOOD WAS KIND OF PART OF THEIR PRESERVATION.

BUT THEY DIDN'T THINK THAT THEY NEEDED TO PROTECT IT AND PUT IT OUT THERE.

AND I SEE THAT IN WRITING.

THIS IS WHAT I WRITE ABOUT PALESTINIAN COOKING AT THE MOMENT BECAUSE I SEE IT AS THE RECOMMENDING FIRST OF ALL, BUT ALSO SHOWING THAT THESE DISHES DIDN'T JUST KIND OF HAPPEN.

THEY HAVE THEIR OWN HISTORY, THEIR STORIES, THEIR WAY WITH THE WHOLE CULTURE, THEIR CONNECTION TO THE LAND, TO THE FARMING, TO THE SURROUNDING, WHICH, YOU KNOW, REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT IN THE WHOLE KIND OF -- >> BUT OF COURSE THE WHOLE QUESTION OF HISTORY, STORY, CULTURE, NARRATIVE.

>> YEAH.

>> WHAT IS TRUE AND WHAT BELONGS TO WHOM IS SO VERY FRAUGHT IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD.

IT'S SO VERY CHALLENGING.

AND SO VERY EMOTIONAL.

AND I REMEMBER, HONESTLY, I'LL TELL YOU, REMEMBER, WE TALKED ABOUT YOUR PREVIOUS COOK BACK, "FALASTIN," AND I REMEMBER GETTING THIS ANGRY EMAIL FROM SOMEBODY WHO SAID BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PALESTINIAN AND PALESTINIAN COOKERY, THAT I WAS NEGATING THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL.

AND I WAS LIKE HUH.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT HISTORY AND TALK ABOUT A PLACE WITHOUT GETTING --WADING INTO THE POLITICS OF IT?

>> I MEAN YOU CAN'T.

EVERYTHING YOU TOUCH IN THE REGION TURNED TO POLITICS.

BUT YOU ALSO CAN'T NOT TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE --THEY ARE FACTS.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I MAKE UP AND JUST WRITE IN A BOOK.

IT'S NOT MY NARRATIVE AS WELL.

AND ALSO, I DON'T TALK FOR THE PALESTINIAN.

I AM ONE PALESTINIAN MAN THAT SEE THE NARRATIVE AS IT IS.

I DON'T MAKE MY OWN NARRATIVE TO SELL A COOK BACK.

THEY ARE FACTS.

IT'S HISTORY.

IT'S BEEN WRITTEN.

I JUST GO BACK AND SEARCH FOR IT.

AND I DON'T --I HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO WRITE A COOKBOOK AND WRITE WHAT THE BACKGROUND, THE HISTORY.

AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO TRY HARD TO DIG INTO THE FACTS.

>> WELL, I WOULD ALSO SAY, THOUGH, THAT THIS BOOK IS VERY PERSONAL.

IT'S INFUSED WITH YOUR MEMORIES.

>> YES.

>> YOUR MEMORIES OF EXPERIENCES, YOUR MEMORIES OF RELATIONSHIPS, YOUR MEMORIES OF FLAVORS, YOUR MEMORIES OF HOW IT MADE YOU FEEL.

AND IT REMINDED ME OF SO MANY PEOPLE THAT I KNOW WHO LIVE APART FROM THE PLACE OF THEIR BIRTH AND ALSO THE PLACE OF THEIR MEMORY.

>> UH-HUH.

>> AND HOW THE FOOD BRINGS THEM BACK TO IT.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S THE THING.

WHEN YOU PALESTINE OR PALESTINIAN, YOU GET BOMBARDED.

I WANT TO SHOW HOW PEOPLE LIVE IN MODERN PALESTINE.

AND TALKING TO ALL THESE AMAZING PEOPLE, ALL RELATED TO FOOD AND THE WAY THEY LIVE THEIR LIFE.

IT'S REALLY, REALLY INSPIRING.

I REMEMBER A COUPLE OF TIMES SAYING WE DON'T WANT TO SIT AND CRY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

WE WANT TO HELP OURSELVES, THE FAMILY, OUR COMMUNITY, OUR COUNTRY.

AND THIS KIND OF REALLY KIND OF IMPORTANT TO SHOW TO PEOPLE BECAUSE THROUGH COOKBOOKS, AND THROUGH -- WE ARE CONNECTED REALLY STRONGLY.

WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE OF COOKING AND EATING AND SHARING FOOD AND CELEBRATING THAT.

AND THROUGH PALESTINE I WANTED TO SHOW ANOTHER SIDE OF THE PALESTINIAN, WHICH IS NOT JUST PEOPLE BEING STALKED AND BEING KILLED AND BOMBARDED.

IT'S KIND OF --THERE IS QUITE A LOT OF MY OWN MEMORIES, BUT ALSO THEY ARE RELATED TO PEOPLE THAT THEY KNOW.

THEY ARE RELATED TO MY FAMILY, ME GROWING UP IN PALESTINE.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT OLDER GENERATION NOW THAT THEY COME, IS GOING TO GET LOST.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO WRITE THEM FOR NEXT GENERATIONS.

>> OKAY.

SO NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE RECIPES.

LET US TALK ABOUT SOME OF YOUR FAVORITES, IF I CAN PUT YOU ON THE SPOT.

AND I ALSO WANT TO KNOW WHICH ONES THAT I CAN EASILY MAKE WITHOUT HAVING TO BE A TRAINED CHEF.

>> YOU CAN DO THE COUSCOUS FRITTERS.

I ALREADY PUBLISHED A SIMILAR RECIPE.

NOT REALLY SIMILAR, BUT BASED ON THE SAME DISH THAT MY MOM USED TO MAKE FOR US AS KIDS.

AND IT'S TOTAL COMFORT.

IT'S JUST WARM COUSCOUS WITH TOMATO AND ONION AND.

IT BRINGS SO MUCH JOY AND COMFORT.

AND I WANTED TO BRING THEM BACK, BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE REALLY ONCE THEY TRY THEM, THEY'RE REALLY BEAUTIFUL.

THEY BRING YOU ALSO COMFORT, BUT ALSO WANTED TO BRING THEM BACK IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

SO I DECIDED TO ADD PEPPERS INTO THEM AND A LOT MORE HEAT AND SHAPE THEM IN A KIND OF PATTIES AND SERVE THEM WITH A REALLY PUNCHY LEMON --PRESERVED LEMON, DILL, AND CAPERS YOGURT.

AND THEY'RE A HIT.

AND PEOPLE REALLY LOVE THEM.

BUT ALSO KIDS LOVE THEM.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE SOUPS?

I NOTICE YOU SAID WHENEVER YOU'RE FEELING SAD OR FEELING A LITTLE UNSETTLED THAT YOU WANT A SOUP.

I AM THE SAME WAY.

WHAT ABOUT A SOUP?

>> I PREFER NOT SUPER HOT LIKE TEMPERATURE HOT SOUP, BUT FREEKAH SOUP, WHICH IS A VERY, VERY SIMPLE SOUP, ALWAYS IS VERY SOOTHING.

>> FREEKAH AND VEGETABLE SOUP.

CAN WE GET ALL THESE INGREDIENTS HERE.

YOU'RE SAYING YOU WERE FORAGING.

I DON'T THINK I'M GOING TO GO FORAGING IN MY NAKED IN WASHINGTON, D. C. >> YOU DON'T NEED TO FORAGE.

I LIKE TOE TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.

PEOPLE REALLY DISCONNECTED FROM SEASONAL INGREDIENTS AND ALSO FROM WHAT GROWS AROUND.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT ASKING PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND FORAGE IF THEY CAN.

THAT WOULD BE AMAZING.

BUT THE BOOK DOESN'T USE ANY KIND OF UNUSUAL THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY GET IN THE SHOP.

AND MOST OF THESE INGREDIENTS ARE KIND OF AVAILABLE NOW, WHEREVER YOU ARE, AND ALSO ONLINE.

>> IT'S AN UNSETTLED TIME.

IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT --DIFFICULT DOESN'T EVEN CAPTURE IT.

THE WORDS I'M USING ARE NOT ADEQUATE TO DESCRIBE THE SUFFERING THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING.

>> I AM SAD.

I AM VERY SAD ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA AND PALESTINE.

BUT I AM A HOPEFUL PERSON.

I AM POSITIVE.

AND I LET MY WORK TALK FOR ITSELF.

I AM EAGER --I'M ALMOST LIKE ON A MISSION NOW TO PROMOTE AS MUCH THE PALESTINIAN FOOD AND CULTURE.

AND THIS IS --KEEPS ME SANE AND KEEPS ME THRIVING.

AND I'M GOING FORWARD.

>> YOU SAID YOU WROTE, "ONCE AGAIN I WANTED TO FOCUS ON PALESTINIAN FOOD, NOT JUST BECAUSE OF WHERE I COME FROM.

I BELIEVE THAT PALESTINIAN FOOD, TRADITION AND CULTURE HAVE A LOTTO OFFER THE WORLD.

THEY ARE A GREAT TESTIMONY TO RESILIENCE AND A WAY OF PRESERVING FOOD CULTURE BY PASSING IT DOWN THROUGH GENERATIONS. "

YOU WRITE, "THE RESPONSIBILITY OF WRITING THESE RECIPES AND STORIES HAS WEIGHED HEAVILY ON MY SHOULDERS. "

AND YOU SAY "I HOPE AND WISH MANY OF YOU TRY READ THE STORIES AND WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PALESTINE, THIS WONDERFUL PLACE I CALL HOME. "

IS THERE A TIME YOU THINK YOU'LL BE ABLE TO GO HOME AND FEEL AT HOME?

>> NOT AS THIS NOW.

FOR ME, GOING BACK -- I GET I DON'T WANT TO TURN IT INTO THIS KIND OF POLITICAL THING.

BUT FOR ME GOING BACK HOME, IT MEANS THAT I'M TREATED LIKE A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN.

I AM THE LONE PERSON IN MY OWN COUNTRY.

AND I STILL GET TREATED BADLY.

I COULDN'T BE AS SUCCESSFUL IF I STAYED BACK HOME.

IT'S REALLY SAD TO THINK ABOUT IT IN A WAY.

>> IT IS.

BUT THE BOOK ITSELF IS NOT SAD.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE RESPONSIBILITY WEIGHING HEAVILY ON YOU.

>> OF COURSE.

>> BUT LIKE YOU SAID, YOU ALSO DON'T WANT TO OVERSHADOW THE PRIDE AND THE JOY.

AND SO HOW YOU WANT US TO THINK ABOUT IT, NOW THAT YOU'VE GIFTED US WITH THIS.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE US AS READERS AND AS COOKS TO DRAW FROM THIS BOOK?

>> TO COOK, TO COOK GOOD FOOD.

TO REALLY --THIS CONNECTS YOU ALSO TO THE WHOLE NARRATIVE THE BOOK, BUT ALSO TO THE PLACE AND TO THE PEOPLE.

TO COOK THE FOOD AND ALSO READ THE STORIES AND WANTING TO KNOW MORE AND HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT TO KIND OF READ A LOT MORE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

AND IT'S NOT JUST BLACK AND WHITE LIKE WE SEE IT NOWADAYS.

IT'S MORE THERE IS A LOT MORE TO IT THAN IT IS.

BUT ALSO, COOKING AND WRITING ABOUT FOOD, IT'S A GOOD TOOL FOR PEOPLE TO DIVE DEEPER INTO A CULTURE, INTO PEOPLE, AND ALSO TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED.

I'M HOPING, YEAH, JUST FOR PEOPLE TO COOK FROM IT.

AND IT IS DELIBERATELY LIGHTER WEIGHT THAN PALESTINIAN BECAUSE I WANTED TO --BECAUSE IT'S ME, AND BECAUSE I'M TALKING ABOUT MYSELF AND MY MEMORIES, THERE IS QUITE A LOT OF POSITIVE IN.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KIND OF ALSO READ IT AND SEE IT.

I AM --I COOK WHEN I'M HAPPY.

AND I COOK BETTER WHEN I'M HAPPY.

>> SAMI TAMIMI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US ONCE AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

> >> AND FINALLY FOR US, A 2,000-YEAR-OLD DISCOVERY PRESERVED IN THE ICE.

A GROUP OF SCIENTISTS HAVE UNCOVERED THESE TATTOOS ON THE REMAINS OF A MUMMY FOUND IN SIBERIA, AND USING 3D IMAGES HAVE RECONSTRUCTED THE INTRICATE INK.

ARCHAEOLOGISTS HAVE IDENTIFIED A ROOSTER AND LEOPARD.

OOERVE A MYTHICAL HALF LION, HALF MYTHICAL CREATURE.

WOW.

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THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO. " ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

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