AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: President# Trump si.. government shutdown, but lawmakers# are still divided over funding for## the Department of Homeland Security.

We# speak with the House Democratic leader.

AMNA NAWAZ: The director of national# intelligence defends her presence at## an FBI raid of a Georgia election facility,# saying President Trump asked her to be there.

GEOFF BENNETT: And hundreds of# thousands of Haitians in the## U.S.

face an uncertain future,# as a judge temporarily blocks## the Trump administration's plan# to end their protected status.

VILES DORSAINVIL, Haitian Support Center:# I'm afraid of folks being detained for no## reason.

I'm afraid of seeing parents# being separated from their kids.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

The four-day partial government shutdown# is now over.

Lawmake.. package today, which President Trump# then signed, reopening the government.

AMNA NAWAZ: But the policy fight behind this# shutdown over Mr.

Trump's immigration crackdown## is far from over.

And the government has given# itself just a small window of borrowed time,## as congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardins# has been following and is now here to explain.

Lisa, good to see you.

LISA DESJARDINS: Good to see .. AMNA NAWAZ: So just kick u.. LISA DESJARDINS: This narrowly passed the House.# It was close and there was a great deal of floor## drama.

And I'm going to talk a little bit about# it because it is important for what lies ahead.

The House does have the narrowest majority,# just a one-vote majority for Republicans,## in history.

And that was a factor today in# an hour or so that this bill was actually## failing on the House floor.

Here's why.# There were five Republicans who House## Speaker Johnson needed to vote yes.

They# either weren't voting or were voting no.

Most of them were trying to use this as# leverage to try and get a voter I.D.

law## passed.

But one of them, John Rose of Tennessee,# notably, the speaker said his problem was he's## running for the governor of Tennessee and# wants some more help from President Trump.

This is a major funding bill and yet it was held# up for that.

Now, this is important because,## as you say, now we still have a period of# time where DHS itself is not funded.

This is## just a short-term patch.

So, again, what happened# today was this law fully funds most agencies and## government, except for the Department of Homeland# Security, which has 10 days worth of funding.

During those 10 days, lawmakers are# supposed to negotiate a deal on ICE## and CBP.

But those frustrated Republicans today,## they're still frustrated.

One of them continued# to vote no, Thomas Massie of Kentucky.

Our producer Kyle Midura caught up with# him and talked about his opposition.

KYLE MIDURA: Is it worth holding out for it or# you think that this is all just brought process?

REP.

THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): We've got to# hold out for something at some point,## right?

Nobody's holding out for# anything here but me.

And I held## out for the Epstein files and got it done.# They got to start holding out for something.

LISA DESJARDINS: You hear that?# They got to start holding out for## something.

There's only 10 days left# until the next funding wall hits.

This was difficult, but I also want to# say they did manage to get funding passed,## mostly in a bipartisan way.

And, notably,## the appropriations process was starting# to work until it had this holdup.

AMNA NAWAZ: I hear you saying 10 days.

That# is a very short window to reach some kind of## deal when it comes to federal agents and ICE# conduct.

What do you know about those talks?

LISA DESJARDINS: Spent a lot of time working## on this today.

Let's look at the# rough contours of wh.. Democrats haven't presented one specific# plan, but here's what some of the Democrats## are demanding.

They want body cameras.

They# want no more masks.

They want ICE agents## to provide their I.D.s.

And some Democrats# want to require judicial warrants for ICE.

But here's the problem, where it's getting# complicated.

Here's a look at where Republicans## are in general.

We know DHS has already said# they will work to get body cameras on ICE agents,## but, as for masks, I.D.s, unclear exactly# where Republicans will come down on that.

And, Amna, Republicans, including the speaker,# have said they are against the idea of using## judicial warrants.

Another question here# is that Republicans, including the speaker,## want that vote on a voter I.D.

law, which is# unassociated with this.

They want to add it to it.

So here's what Speaker Johnson# said earlier today on both fronts.

REP.

MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): This is a big priority# for not just House Republicans, but for the## American people.

And we will continue to attach# this to legislation and send it over.

And it will## be part of the discussion over the next couple# of weeks, and we will see how that shakes out.

But I suspect that some of the changes,# the procedural modifications with ICE,## Immigration and Customs Enforcement, will# be codified.

I mean, they have said that## they're willing to do some of this,# and so we will see how it comes out.

LISA DESJARDINS: That was big news, willing# to codify some of this, what Democrats want.

As for what they want exactly, Chuck Schumer,## the Democratic leader of the Senate, said# today he's ready to make the next move.

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The House vote# just passed, and we're going to present a## serious proposal, detailed, along the outlines# of what we have talked about to the Republicans,## both in the Senate, the House and# the White House, very shortly.

LISA DESJARDINS: We're also# watching House Democrats.

They## don't necessarily agree with Senate Democrats.

AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned those# judicial warrants.

That seems like## one of the most complicated pieces# here.

What do Democrats want there?

LISA DESJARDINS: I think we're going to be# talking a lot more about this in coming days,## but, quickly, the judicial warrants have# a much higher standard.

They have to go## through a judge, through a court, and# that's why Democrats want them.

They## want someone independent of ICE# reviewing that warrant process.

However, Republicans say, no, that's too high of## a standard in this situation.

That's# going to be a major point of debate.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, bottom line for today, Lisa,# when do we expect the full government to reopen?

LISA DESJARDINS: Imagine this.

Right now,# the government is reopening.

As you said,## President Trump signed the law.

Those# many workers who didn't show up today,## who had a brief furlough,# they will be back tomorrow.

But, again, stay tuned because the# Department of Homeland Security,## which is a very large agency, their fate# still awaits another wall in just 10 days.

AMNA NAWAZ: More talks ahead.

Lisa Desjardins covering it all, th.. LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

GEOFF BENNETT: For more on the vote# today ending the partial government## shutdown and the latest on the Epstein files,## I spoke earlier today with House Democratic# Leader Hakeem Jeffries of New York.

Leader Jeffries, welcome back to the "News Hour."

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY):# Thank you for having me on.

GEOFF BENNETT: More than 20 House# Democrats voted with Republicans## to reopen the government.

You# voted against the measure.

Why?

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, what's clear to me is## that there needs to be dramatic change# at the Department of Homeland Security.

We supported the five bipartisan bills that# are now on their way to President Trump's desk## because they are actually designed# to promote the health, the safety,## and the economic well-being# of the American people.

Rosa DeLauro, top Democrat on the Appropriations# Committee, did a tremendous job in negotiating## those bills.

The American people don't want# to see their taxpayer dollars, however,## utilized to brutalize and kill American citizens.

Taxpayer dollars should actually be# used to make life more affordable for## everyday Americans.

And that's going to be the# genesis of the fight over the next 10 days as## we approach the funding deadline on February# 13 for the Department of Homeland Security.

GEOFF BENNETT: That's right.

We# should explain to folks who might## be unfamiliar this agreement kicks off# this 10-day sprint now for Democrats## and Republicans to agree on policy# changes for how ICE should operate.

What specific changes do you believe must## be addressed before Democrats# support longer-term funding?

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Fundamentally, we# believe that ICE should conduct itself like## every other law enforcement agency in the country.

Police officers don't wear masks.

Sheriffs# don't wear masks.

State troopers don't wear## masks.

There's no justification for the manner# in which ICE is conducting itself in terms of## masks.

They should be required to have body# cameras.

They should be required to obtain## judicial warrants before they can rip everyday# Americans out of their homes or out of their cars.

We want to make clear there's an explicit# prohibition from ICE detaining or deporting## American citizens, which we have seen# examples of, unfortunately.

We believe that,## if ICE agents break the law, they should be# held accountable.

And those investigations## should be fair, complete and independent,# which also means giving state and local## authorities the ability to investigate# violations of state and local law.

GEOFF BENNETT: The DHS secretary, Kristi Noem,# said this week that DHS will deploy body cameras## to Minneapolis and other cities as funding allows# for those agents who are working in those cities.

Is that sufficient?

Is that# a good enough first step,## a sign that the administration# is at least open to changes?

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, Kristi# Noem has zero credibility.

Certainly,## it is the case that body cameras# should be required.

And we also## know that the Department of Homeland# Security has more than enough funding.

In the one big, ugly bill, where Republicans# enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American## history and at the same time stripped# away about $186 billion in support for## nutritional assistance, they literally stole# food from the mouths of hungry children,## seniors and veterans in order to# give the Department of Homeland## Security a $191 billion slush fund,# $75 billion of which went to ICE.

So the funding clearly exists for every# single ICE agent to have body cameras on## and functioning at all times.

And the fact# that Kristi Noem is suggesting that there## may be a funding shortfall indicates# further the lack of credibility that## she has.

She should be fired.

And if she's# not fired, I have indicated that the House## Democrats are prepared to initiate# impeachment proceedings against her.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the time that remains,# I want to ask you about the Epstein files,## because the Justice Department last# week released over three million pages## of Epstein-related documents.

Many of# them were heavily redacted.

There are## legislators who say that not all of the# relevant material has been disclosed.

In your view, did the DOJ comply with the# congressional intent and with the law in## the way that it has gone about# making these documents public?

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES: The Department of# Justice continues to hide documents from## the American people in a manner that is# entirely inconsistent with the law that## was passed with huge bipartisan majorities# and, of course, signed by Donald Trump.

And the question has to once again be asked,## what are the Department of Justice lawyers# hiding from the American people and who## are they protecting?

There are more than three# million documents that have not been released.

And, as you indicated, several documents have# been heavily redacted.

And so the survivors of## the Epstein crime spree have boldly and# appropriately called for accountability## and transparency.

And the only way to achieve# that is to make sure that the Department of## Justice releases the Epstein files in their# entirety.

They have failed to do that today.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, the Clintons have# agreed to testify in this Republican-led inquiry.

It's led by the House Oversight Committee# chairman, James Comer, as you well know.## This appears to be an effort by the GOP to make# the Clintons the face of this Epstein scandal,## the Epstein investigation.

The# question I have for you, though,## is about the precedent.

If Democrats win the# House come November, does this mean that future## investigations will apply the same standard to# presidents and political leaders of both parties?

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, I think that the# Clintons have endeavored to enter into good-faith## negotiations with a Republican majority that is# clearly trying to create a political circus in## order to try to distract from the accountability# and lack of full transparency that the Trump## administration has been blocking since the# very beginning of this whole sordid matter.

And so, from our standpoint, I'm thankful# that it appears that we're now on a path## toward the Clintons reaching an agreement# with the House to provide their testimony.## But I don't believe that James Comer is a# serious individual or that he's seriously## trying to actually get information that then# can be presented to the American people as part## of what we're trying to accomplish here,# which is transparency and accountability.

He wants to politicize things.

He's targeting the# Clintons so he can distract from the fact that the## Trump administration is failing to comply with# the law, a law that Donald Trump himself signed.

GEOFF BENNETT: House Democratic Leader Hakeem# Jeffries, thanks again for your time this evening.

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Thank you so much.

GEOFF BENNETT: Turning to the# day's other headlines now:## The U.S.

military says it's shot down an# Iranian drone in the Arabian Sea that was## approaching a U.S.

aircraft carrier with what# officials described as an unclear intent.

Just hours earlier, Iranian forces are said to# have harassed a U.S.-flagged merchant vessel## in the Strait of Hormuz.

The two developments# come as Iran's president called for fair and## equitable negotiations with the U.S.

in# talks scheduled for later this week.

That## marks a shift in tone following weeks# of heightened tensions between the two## nations over Tehran's bloody crackdown# of protests that left thousands dead.

Russia renewed its attacks on Ukrainian energy# targets overnight just a day ahead of planned## peace talks aimed at ending the nearly four-year# war.

The bombardment included hundreds of drones,## as well as missiles, and knocked# out heating in parts of the capital,## Kyiv, which is suffering one of# its coldest winters in years.

It comes as Russia and Ukraine differed on a# timeline for a pause on hitting each other's## energy infrastructure.

That temporary halt# was requested by President Trump last week.

Speaking alongside NATO Chief# Mark Rutte in Kyiv today,## President Zelenskyy said the pause was# supposed to expire this coming Friday.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President (through# translator): We will contact the American side## regarding this matter.

I expect that our partners# will not remain silent about what is happ.. It is critical for everyone to continue# to support the defense of our country.

GEOFF BENNETT: But in the# Oval Office this afternoon,## President Trump insisted that the pause was# only due to last until this past Sunday,## and that President Vladimir Putin of Russia# had indeed -- quote -- "kept his word."

More Palestinians gathered on both# sides of the Rafah Crossing today,## hoping to pass through on day two of its# long-awaited reopening.

Ambulances were## seen departing Gaza, evacuating patients in# dire need of medical care to hospitals in## Egypt.

And Palestinians who previously fled# Gaza returned home today via the crossing.

It's not clear how many people made# the journey in either direction.

It## comes after only a dozen Palestinians were# allowed back into Gaza last night.

Some## recounted their experience, which they say# included an interrogation by Israeli troops.

ROTANA AL-REGEB, Palestinian Returnee (through# translator): The army took us and blindfolded us,## me, my mother, and another woman.

They# tied our hands and began questioning## us about things we didn't know and# had no connection to.

We had nothing## to do with anything they were asking us about.

GEOFF BENNETT: The reopening of the# crossing is a vital step toward the## second phase of the Israel-Hamas cease-fire.

President Trump says he now wants $1 billion# in damages from Harvard University to settle a## long-running dispute over alleged antisemitism# on campus.

That's double the amount the Trump## administration had been seeking.

And it# comes after The New York Times reported## that Mr.

Trump was backing away from a# demand for a cash payment from Harvard.

In a series of social media# posts, the president fired back,## calling that reporting completely# wrong.

Harvard has been fighting the## administration in court over its efforts# to freeze billions of dollars in federal## funding and to hinder the school's# ability to enroll foreign students.

Disney named the head of its theme# parks, Josh D'Amaro, as its new CEO.## The 54-year-old replaces longtime Disney# head Bob Iger and becomes just the ninth## boss in the company's more-than-100-year# history.

Josh D'Amaro takes over at a time## when Disney is riding high with box office hits# like "Zootopia 2" and the latest "Avatar" film,## but is also seeing fewer international# visitors at its U.S.

theme parks.

Disney shares ended slightly# lower following the news.

Elsewhere on Wall Street today, stocks# fell amid weakness in tech shares.

The## Dow Jones industrial average slipped more than 160# points.

The Nasdaq dropped more than 330 points,## or nearly 1.5 percent.

The S&P 500# also closed in negative territory.

Still to come on the "News Hour": a# former secretary of homeland security## weighs in on the agency's immigration crackdown;## Colombia's president visits the White House after# months of high tensions between the two nations;## and a new book explores the agricultural# revolution that could transform how we eat meat.

AMNA NAWAZ: We're learning new details about the# FBI raid on an elections office in Fulton County,## Georgia, last week.

Director of National# Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard explained in a## letter to Congress that President Trump personally## asked her to be on site as federal# agents executed that search warrant.

The incident has raised serious questions# about election security and federal authority.

White House correspondent Liz Landers has# been following all of this and joins us now.

So, Liz, let's start with the FBI raid# in Georgia and Tulsi Gabbard's role.

What## more do we know about why she was there?

LIZ LANDERS: Well, this has been raising## concerns amongst Democrats in Congress, who# asked her to explain her presence.

So she## wrote this letter late last night defending# why she was down there in Fulton County.

She said that: "The president specifically# directed my observance of the execution of## the Fulton County search warrant."

She also# in this letter confirmed a phone call that## she facilitated between President Trump and# FBI agents who participated in that operation,## which I should underscore, Amna, is very unusual.

White House Press Secretary# Karoline Leavitt was asked## about this and explained a bit more# about Gabbard's role this afternoon.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, White House Press Secretary:# This is a coordinated whole-of-government effort## to ensure that our elections, again, are fair# and transparent moving forward.

I don't see## anything wrong with the president tasking# a Cabinet member to pursue an issue that## most people want to see solved.

Maybe you# don't, but I know many Americans do want## to make sure our elections are protected, and# that's what Tulsi Gabbard is focused on doing.

LIZ LANDERS: And Fulton County election officials# there are saying that they are going to sue the## FBI and the Department of Justice over the# search warrant that they say was not proper.

AMNA NAWAZ: I'm sure you have heard there are some# who are worrying this could be a sort of dry run## for other places to interfere in the 2026 midterms# and beyond.

What are you hearing about that?

LIZ LANDERS: Well, one of the main# concerns about what happened in Fulton## County is that they seized voter rolls.

That# was something we saw in the warrant last week.

And there are concerns from other state election# officials about this now.

I spoke earlier with## Tammy Patrick.

She served as a Maricopa# County election official for 11 years.

TAMMY PATRICK, National Association for Election# Officials: And I think that state and local## officials for a number of months now, if not for# the last year, have been .. better understanding of what the laws are in their# state around their voting materials post-election,## who has access to them, what needs to be done# in order for someone to gain that access,## and what are the protocols for chain of custody to## make sure that the integrity of the# materials remains and is retained?

LIZ LANDERS: Patrick also added that# these local election officials are## working very closely with their county# and state attorneys right now to make## sure that they are properly maintaining# voting material even after the voting## concludes in case there are these kinds of# operations that happen further down the line.

One more thing that I would add, Amna,# Senator Mark Warner, who sent that letter## to Tulsi Gabbard, he is also worried that the# kinds of actions that we saw in Fulton County,## seizing election materials, that# that could spread to other states.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, we heard from the# president yesterday in a radio interview## saying Republicans should nationalize# the voting in some states ahead of the## midterms.

He doubled down on that# idea today.

Here's what he said.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# Look at some of the places that -- horrible## corruption on elections.

And the federal# government should not allow that.

The## federal government should get involved.

These# are agents of the federal government to count## the votes.

If they can't count the votes legally# and honestly, then somebody else should take over.

AMNA NAWAZ: Liz, the question is,## does the president have the power to#.. LIZ LANDERS: The short answer to this is no.

And it's worth reminding people what# the Constitution says specifically## about how elections are supposed to# be administered in this country.

The## Constitution is clear that states are# the ones who set the time and place## for federal elections.

But it does give# Congress the right to alter those rules.

Congress has exercised this power# sparingly during the Reconstruction## period after the Civil War.

And this# also applies to congressional elections,## not state elections, like governor# or secretary of state elections.

This ultimately, though, does not give the# president or any president unilateral power## to nationalize congressional elections.

That# power is explicitly given to Congress.

And I## would add that even those in his own party,# like Senate Majority Leader John Thune,## was asked about the president's# comments, nationalizing elections,## and he said to reporters today: "I am# not in favor of federalizing elections."

AMNA NAWAZ: I know you have# been covering this as well,## but we should point out this Trump# administration has been fighting## for almost a year now in court to obtain# private voter data from a number of states.

When you talk to election security# watchers, what do they say about that?

LIZ LANDERS: Well, the main concern that# we heard, and we heard this last week from## secretaries of state who were in Washington# all convening together talking about this,## is that there could be personally identifying# information that gets out if they're sending## some of this information to the federal# government and to the Department of Justice.

So about 20 states now have been sued by the# Department of Justice, trying to get more of## their voter roll information and some of these# details that these states say, we're trying## to safeguard this to make sure that people's# identities don't get stolen, stuff like that.

So when we're talking to these state and# local election officials, they are sort of## on the front lines of fighting against what# the administration is asking for right now,## and they say they're doing it to# protect the voters in their states.

AMNA NAWAZ: That's our White House# correspondent, Liz Landers, reporting tonight.

Liz, thank you.

In a forum on federal agents' use of force# in the president's immigration crackdown,## Democratic lawmakers heard from# Americans directly impacted.

That included the brothers of Renee Good,# shot and killed in Minneapolis last month,## Marimar Martinez, shot five times by# Border Patrol agents in Chicago last fall,## and Aliya Rahman, dragged from# her car by agents in January in## Minneapolis.

ICE agents said they'd# instructed Rahman to move her car.

The administration has claimed that Good and# Martinez threatened agents with their cars.,## Charges against Martinez were later dropped.

Here's just some of what they shared.

LUKE GANGER, Brother of Renee Good: The# completely surreal scenes taking place## on the streets of Minneapolis are beyond# explanation.

This is not just a bad day## or a rough week or isolated incidents.# These encounters with federal agents are## changing the community and changing# many lives, including ours forever.

MARIMAR MARTINEZ, Shot By Border# Patrol Agents: I struggle with the## memories of the day, the initial# swerving int.. the shots ringing out and the burning sensation# as the bullets ripped through my skin and body.

I had seven bullet holes in my body.

I remember# the agents rushing the nurses to finish up so they## could take me with them.

I still felt dizzy.

I was# not able to fully process what had happened to me.

ALIYA RAHMAN, Dragged From Vehicle By ICE: Then# the glass of the passenger side window flew across## my face.

I yelled "I'm disabled" at the hands# grabbing at me.

And an agent said: "Too late."

AMNA NAWAZ: No DHS officials# appeared at today's forum.

For more on all this, I'm joined now by Janet# Napolitano.

She served as homeland security## secretary under President Obama.

She's also served# as Arizona's governor and as attorney general.

Secretary Napolitano, welcome back to the# "News Hour."

Thank you for joining us.

JANET NAPOLITANO, Former U.S.

Secretary# of Homeland Security: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Can I just ask you to res.. forum today of people testifying about the use# of force they or their families experienced,## and also the videos I'm sure you have# seen of federal agents breaking windows,## pointing guns at civilians,# dragging people from cars?

You ran DHS.

Is this what an immigration# enforcement operation is supposed to look like?

JANET NAPOLITANO: No, it is not.

And what we have seen in Minneapolis and# in other cities where the so-called surges## occurred is increasingly aggressive# behavior by federal agents.

Look,## immigration is a tough topic.

I know.# I have dealt with it for decades,## but it is no excuse for the excessive use of# force against the citizenry of the United States.

AMNA NAWAZ: You will recall under# President Obama when he was dubbed## by immigration rights advocates# as the deporter in chief, right?

JANET NAPOLITANO: Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: He logged more than three million deportations across both his# administrations under ICE.

So what was being done differently# then compared to what we're seeing now?

JANET NAPOLITANO: Well, first of all, we# prioritized.

We gave clear direction to## ICE to focus on those in the country illegally# who had also committed other serious crimes.

And that's primarily what we did.

We also# focused on border and border security and## deportations right at the border before# individuals had the opportunity to get## into the United States and settle here.

And# so I was secretary for about five years,## and in that period we deported# about 3.2 million or so individuals.

That's what gave President Obama,# I think much to his chagrin,## the nickname deporter in chief.# But it was a clear prioritized## operation that was designed to protect the# nation from undocumented illegal immigration,## but also to rid the nation of illegal immigrants# who had otherwise committed other crimes.

AMNA NAWAZ: As you have seen, we have seen a# little bit of a change from the president's## administration in Minneapolis,# at least, replacing Greg Bovino,## who was running the operation there, with# Tom Homan, his so-called border czar.

I understand you know Mr.

Homan# from your time at DHS.

He was there## when you were secretary.

What can you# tell us about him and how, if at all,## you think things will change# on the ground in Minneapolis?

JANET NAPOLITANO: Well, I think the switch was# long overdue, because Bovino was such a showboat,## rather than being really an effective# law enforcement leader and manager.

Tom Homan is a career public servant.

He's very# conservative on immigration, don't get me wrong,## but when I was secretary, he was head of ERO at# ICE.

And that's when we implemented the guidelines## that we had begun under President Obama, which# was in the interior of the country to focus on## those who were in the country in undocumented# status who had committed other serious crimes.

AMNA NAWAZ: When you look at what's happening# on the ground, though, and contrast that with## the message we're hearing from some of the# senior-most officials in the White House,## the vice president himself, Stephen Miller,# who we know formulates a lot of this policy,## they have been messaging to ICE agents that# they have absolute immunity in how they act.

How do you think federal agents are# incentivized to be less aggressive## or pull back when that's the message# they're getting from the White House?

JANET NAPOLITANO: Well, it's -- not# only is it wrong on the law.

They## don't have absolute immunity and# have never had absolute immunity.

But just the words that are being used, the# rhetoric that comes from the White House,## from the secretary's office, et cetera, in# essence, gives permission to field agents to do## overly aggressive behaviors in order to# accomplish what they're supposed to do.## And that has resulted in some of the# real unfortunate abuses that we have## seen in Minneapolis and in other# cities across the United States.

AMNA NAWAZ: So how much of a difference# would it make when you look at what## Democrats are asking for, in example, in these# shutdowns -- well, the shutdown is now over,## but in the negotiations over# a change in ICE tactics?

They want things like ending roving patrols,# removing agents' masks, requiring judicial,## not administrative warrants.

Would# those things make a real difference?

JANET NAPOLITANO: Well, roving patrols# are a function of the quota that has## been issued by the White House for 3,000# arrests per day, which is a great increase## from any prior administration.

And they# simply can't find enough of those people.

So they're just running around looking.# And that has caused all kinds of abuse and## the kinds of things that we have seen in# Minneapolis and elsewhere.

Other things,## requiring a judicial warrant, which# seems to be a sticking point, well,## judicial warrants are required when a# federal agent wants to enter a home.## It's a function of the Fourth Amendment to# the Constitution.

There's no difference.

Under the current law, immigration agents# do not need a judicial warrant when they're## effecting an arrest in a public place if they# have probable cause to believe an individual## is otherwise removable.

So if that's where they# end up, that's what the law currently requires.

And what we have seen -- where we have seen# the law broken is an agent going into houses,## not with judicial warrants, which is# a fundamental of the Fourth Amendment,## but with simple administrative warrants.

AMNA NAWAZ: You have mentioned in# previous interviews that you don't## know the current DHS secretary, Kristi Noem.

You## haven't spoken to her.

You did say in one# interview she's clearly out of her depth.

But if you could advise her at this moment about# what you think should happen next to avoid more## loss of life or further aggressive# use of force, what would you say?

JANET NAPOLITANO: Well, first, I would say that# she needs to watch what she says and how she## says it.

She is the leader of the Department of# Homeland Security.

She shouldn't rush to judgment## and immediately say a victim is a domestic# terrorist or an insurrectionist or an anarchist,## when we can see the videos for ourselves, the# American people can see the videos for themselves.

But, in essence, it's giving permission# to those agents who are out there who## are acting overly aggressively, not using# law enforcement best practices to continue## that kind of behavior.

The second# thing I would recommend to her is to## make sure that investigations of these excessive# force cases are done independently, openly,## transparently, and in cooperation and coordination# with state attorneys general and local police.

That is the only way that the department# will reestablish the credibility of these## investigations, since there was such# a rush to judgment at the outset.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is the former Homeland Security# Secretary Janet Napolitano joining us tonight.

Secretary Napolitano, thank you# for your time.

We appreciate it.

JANET NAPOLITANO: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT:## The Trump administration's plan to end# temporary protected status for Haitians## in the U.S.

was blocked yesterday by# a federal court in Washington, D.C.

The program, which allows Haitians# to live and work legally in the U.S.,## was set to expire today, a move that# would have left roughly 350,000 people## vulnerable to deportation.

But the# Trump administration plans to appeal.

And, as Stephanie Sy reports,# that uncertainty has won Ohio## city bracing as it fears becoming the# next focus of immigration enforcement.

WOMAN: Thank you.

I have a right to remain silent.

STEPHANIE SY: Masked men confronting# congregants while others record on## their cell phones.

A chaotic scene unfolds at a# church in Springfield, Ohio, only, it's not real.

WOMAN: Department of Homeland Security.

Open up.

STEPHANIE SY: Community members are role-playing# how an ICE raid might unfold.

And they clearly## plan to resist, armed with Scripture and# knowledge of their constitutional rights.

WOMAN: They are supposed to not be able to# enter private spaces without a judicial warrant.

CARL RUBY, Senior Pastor, Central Christian# Church: I can't imagine what it would be like## for me if I had to leave my country# because I couldn't live here safely.

There is a lot of support# for Springfield out there.

STEPHANIE SY: Senior Pastor Carl Ruby# founded a network of churches in the## area offering support to the city's# Haitians and, in some cases, sanctuary.

CARL RUBY: I would want people to stand with me.

I## would want people to protect me.

So# that's all that we're trying to do.

STEPHANIE SY: Nancy Flinchbaugh has# called Springfield home for 30 years.

NANCY FLINCHBAUGH, Springfield, Ohio,# Resident: I'm here because I'm very## concerned about what's going to happen to the# immigrants in ou.. because I think it's going to have# a detrimental effect on all of us.

STEPHANIE SY: In recent years, Springfield# has experienced a surge in Haitian migrants,## most of whom came under the Department of# Homeland Security's temporary protected## status designation.

TPS lets people from# countries deemed temporarily unsafe due## to war or natural disasters live# and work in the U.S.

legally.

The Trump administration has tried to terminate# TPS status for 11 countries in his second term.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# In Springfield, they're eating the dogs,## the people that came in.

They're eating the cats.

STEPHANIE SY: And the president has had# Springfield's Haitian population in his sights## since the 2024 election, when the city became a# political flash point and focus of misinformation.

If the Trump administration's# decision not to renew TPS for## Haiti is ultimately allowed by the# Supreme Court, many of the city's## roughly 15,000 Haitian residents will# become subject to deportation orders.

VILES DORSAINVIL, Haitian Support Center: The USA## that used to be seen as the beacon# of t.. STEPHANIE SY: Viles Dorsainvil is originally# from Haiti's capital, Port-au-Prince,## and moved to Springfield in 2021.

He runs# the Haitian Support Center in Springfield.

VILES DORSAINVIL: I'm afraid of folks# being detained for no reason.

I'm afraid## of seeing parents being separated from their kids.

STEPHANIE SY: Despite the Homeland Security# Secretary Kristi Noem's determination that## Haiti no longer meets the criteria for TPS,# the U.S.

State Department has a do not travel## for any reason advisory for the country due# to kidnapping, crime, terrorism and unrest.## And the FAA has a ban on commercial flights to# its main airport in place at least until March.

VILES DORSAINVIL: I think that the American# people who've been enjoying their country not## having those type of problems that immigrants have# would not understand what we are going through.

If## they were living in a condition where they feel# insecure by armed hoodlums, if they were in a## condition where they wouldn't be able to feed# their kids, if they were in a condition where## they were persecuted by their own government,# wouldn't they try to get to somewhere safer?

STEPHANIE SY: A federal judge sided with# that view yesterday.

In a challenge to the## Trump administration's move to end TPS,# D.C.

District Judge Ana Reyes wrote that## the decision appeared driven by hostility# to nonwhite immigrants, and she called the## termination of TPS preordained and not based# on the realities on the ground in Haiti.

The Trump administration is expected to# file an immediate appeal.

Ultimately,## their fate could end up decided by# the Supreme Court.

But not everyone## in Springfield would be upset# to see Haitian migrants leave.

LAURA ROSENBERGER, Executive Chairman, the Clark# County, Ohio, Republican Party: There's definitely## a resentment in Clark County, and that's# the tens.. Oh, here's a good one.

STEPHANIE SY: Laura Rosenberger has# lived in Sprin.. and is the executive chairman of the Clark# County Republican Party.

She says many in## Springfield were taken off guard by the arrival# of such a large number of Haitian immigrants.

LAURA ROSENBERGER: I think a lot of the people,# the native people, feel like they were not asked.## It was not put to a vote.

The people had# no voice.

All of a sudden, this happened.

STEPHANIE SY: And she says the surge IN# population led some Ohioans to feel pushed aside.

LAURA ROSENBERGER: There's a lot of competition# for jobs.

And when you bring in such a large## amount of people, that increases the# friction because people are fighting## each other for jobs and resources.

The# wages that the Haitians will work for## are much lower than what your typical# American worker is going to work for.

STEPHANIE SY: But if these manufacturing# companies lose their workers, might that## lead to a greater shift away from areas like yours# that have already lost so much of their industry?

LAURA ROSENBERGER: Well, we need our# people to step up and apply for these## jobs and the manufacturers need to hire# them, even if it means hiring them for a## little bit of a higher wage than what# the Haitians would have worked for.

MELANIE WILT, Former Clark County,# Ohio, Commissioner: When you see the## erosion of the economy over time, you can start# to be kind of protectionist.

And then you h.. scarcity mind-set that is, well, if somebody else# is getting this, then I'm not getting something.

STEPHANIE SY: Melanie Wilt is the former# commissioner of Clark County, which## includes Springfield.

She admits the population# surge was difficult to manage at first, but: MELANIE WILT: We have spent the last four# or five years really adjusting to that,## helping to assimilate the Haitian community,## making them part of our work force.

And they're an# important part of this community now.

So, if that## were to change overnight with the expiration# of TPS, our community would have to adjust.

STEPHANIE SY: Like many Industrial Midwest cities,# Springfield lost jobs and residents for decades,## a trend that began reversing in recent# years partly due to Haitian immigrants.

MELANIE WILT: One of the goals that we have had# for a long time is to increase our population,## because increased population strengthens# the tax base.

And we have seen that## our immigrant neighbors really do# spend their money in the community.

STEPHANIE SY: But with the end# of TPS come a lot of unknowns.

What do you think should# happen to these folks?

I mean,## it's called TPS because it's# supposed to be temporary.

MELANIE WILT: Well, I'm a conservative.# I'm a Republican.

And I believe that this## country needs immigration reform, but# I think we need to do it in a way that## is respectful of human dignity.

I think we# need to do it in a way that is predictable.

STEPHANIE SY: Viles Dorsainvil says that# uncertainty is weighing heavy on his community.

VILES DORSAINVIL: They are tired.

When I say# tired, I mean, they just not know what to## do next.

They're not accepted back home,# and they're not accepting anywhere.

They## keep running from time to time and not being# able to set up anywhere.

So they are tired.

STEPHANIE SY: Tired, with no# clear place to run to next.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Stephanie Sy.

GEOFF BENNETT:## Today, two presidents known for their# fiery rhetoric toward each other met## in the Oval Office and apparently put their# acrimony behind them.

Colombia's President## Gustavo Petro has long been a critic# of President Trump and the U.S.

itself.

AMNA NAWAZ: But Mr.

Trump this afternoon# praised Petro and did not repeat previous## threats of military action.

And# in a press conference tonight,## Petro said the meeting eased tensions# between Trump and all of Latin America.

Nick Schifrin reports.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Today, at the White House, a# Colombian president who for decades criticized## what he calls American imperialism was all smiles# for the man he recently dubbed a would-be king.

President Trump greeted Gustavo Petro# warmly, offered a personal tour of what## he's labeled the Presidential Walk# of Fame and wrote Petro a letter,## "A great honor.

I love Colombia" and inscribed# his "Art of the Deal" "You are great."

DONALD TRUMP, President of the# United States: I thought he was## terrific.

He's great.

We got.. NICK SCHIFRIN: Tonight, Petro said# the meeting defused regional tensions.

GUSTAVO PETRO, Colombian President# (through translator): He gave me a## red cap that said "Make America .. and said "Make Americas Great," and that can# only be done on the basis of mutual respect.

NICK SCHIFRIN: That is a far cry# from months of mutual maliciousness.

DONALD TRUMP: Colombia is out of control,# and now they have the worst president## they have ever had.

He's a lunatic who's# got a lot of problems, mental problems.

GUSTAVO PETRO (through translator): We# must respond to defend people's rights,## the rights of democracy not# to be governed by tyrannies.

DONALD TRUMP: He has cocaine mills and cocaine# factories.

He's not going to be doing it.

QUESTION: So, there will be# an operation by the U.S.?

DONALD TRUMP: It sounds good to me.

GUSTAVO PETRO (through translator):## For us, ICE operates the same way as the# Nazi and Italian brigades, the fascists.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But after the U.S.

'# -- quote -- "law enforcement action"## against Venezuelan President Nicolas# Maduro ended with him in handcuffs,## President Trump says there's# been a change in tone.

DONALD TRUMP: I mean, he's been very nice over the## last month or two.

He was certainly# critical before that.

But, somehow,## after the Venezuelan raid, he became very# nice.

He changed his attitude very much.

NICK SCHIFRIN: What hasn't changed, the# Colombian military's desire to combat drug## smuggling.

For years, they have worked# with the U.S.

to take steps like this,## interdict cocaine from Colombia# on the way to the United States.

The Trump administration's solution was military,## dozens of strikes on alleged drug boats.

Petro# described that as murder.

And his solution,## voluntary eradication, letting farmers# themselves rip up the root of the problem.

WOMAN (through translator): It# doesn't interest us.

We don't## want it because we know there's no# future or way forward there for us.

KEVIN WHITAKER, Former U.S.

Ambassador# to Colombia: The theory is not wrong.## The problem is, it's never worked in practice.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Kevin Whitaker was ambassador to# Colombia from 2014 until 2019 under Presidents## Obama and Trump.

He points out that Colombia's# cocaine production has grown year over year,## and the country now supplies nearly# 70 percent of the world's cocaine.

KEVIN WHITAKER: I mean, a serious flaw# in the Petro administration's approach## to this entire issue is to completely stop# the process of military engagement with these## illegal armed groups who# are behind the coca trade.

A serious approach would be to design# a strategy aimed at undercutting the## illegal armed groups as a military# matter.

I think that that would be## very attractive to the U.S.

administration.

I# also think it could be effective in Colombia.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Whitaker also says that,# despite historic ties, Petro and the U.S.## could cooperate on overlapping goals# with the new government of Venezuela.

The U.S.

has forced that government to# stop exporting oil to Cuba, and now,## under U.S.

pressure, Mexico could# also cut off its own supply to Cuba.

DONALD TRUMP: It's a failed nation now, and# they're not getting any money from Venezuela,## and they're not getting any money from# anywhere.

It's a failed nation.

Mexico## is going to cease sending them oil.

But we# are dealing with the Cuban leaders right now.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Since the Cuban Revolution,## the country has relied on an outside patron.

It# first lost t.. KEVIN WHITAKER: People have been predicting# the end of the Castro regime in Cuba for many,## many years.

It's hard to think that# this will be the time when it will## really make a difference.

But petroleum# is very important to the economy.

And if## they lose the flows both from Mexico and from# Venezuela, that's going to hurt economically.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And Cuba and the region# will remain under enormous U.S.

pressure## that today brought a former guerrilla# fighter to the seat of U.S.

power.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

GEOFF BENNETT: In his new book, Bruce# Friedrich argues that the way we produce## meat is unsustainable for the climate,# for public health, and for the planet,## and that the solution isn't eating# less meat, but making it differently.

From lab-grown meat to plant-based alternatives,## he says a food revolution is already under# way, whether consumers realize it or not.

I spoke with him about the book "Meat: How the## Next Agricultural Revolution Will Transform# Humanity's Favorite Food and Our Future."

Bruce Friedrich, welcome to the "News Hour."

BRUCE FRIEDRICH, Author: Thanks#very much, Geoff.

I'm delighted to be here.

GEOFF BENNETT: You open the book by saying -- this## is a quote -- "I'm not here# to tell anyone what to eat."

Why was it important for you to start# there and to focus on how meat is made,## rather than on the personal choice?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Well, because the environmental# and global health and animal protection## communities have been basically starting# on personal choice for more than 50 years.

And what we have seen is that meat# consumption just keeps going up.## So the U.N.

Food and Agriculture Organization,# they started tracking this in 1961.

And we have## literally hit a new global meat production record# every single year since.

And that's a problem,## because cycling crops through# animals is incredibly inefficient.

It takes nine calories into a chicken to# get one calorie back out in the form of## chicken meat.

It's just a shockingly# inefficient system that has a lot of## negative externalities, negative external costs.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you describe this moment# as the next global agricultural revolution.## What makes this shift comparable# to past revolutions in farming?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Well, for 12,000 years we have## been growing crops to feed them to# animals, so that we can eat animals.

That is -- after hunting and# gathering, that's how we have## been doing it for 12,000 years.

As I just# mentioned, it's fantastically inefficient,## but it's not just the inefficiency of growing# the crops to feed them to animals.

So,## the most efficient animal being the# chicken, and that's 800 percent food waste,## so eight times the land, eight times the water,# eight times the herbicides and pesticides.

You also have to ship all of those crops# to a feed mill, operate the feed mill,## ship the feed to the farm, operate the farm,# ship the animals to the slaughterhouse,## operate the slaughterhouse.

Like, that's a bunch# of extra gas-guzzling, pollution-spewing vehicles,## a bunch of extra factories, which take a lot# of energy and spew out a lot of pollution.

If we can remove the animal from the equation# and give human beings what they love about meat,## because I call it humanity's# favorite food in the subtitle,## that would be really a revolution,# animal meat without the animal.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you may clear that this# will only work if the meat alternative looks,## tastes like, and has a price# point that matches conventional## meat.

Where are we closest on# parity when it comes to that?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Yes, I mean,# just to underline that point,## like, we started with the idea of# personal choice.

What is absolutely## clear is that people eat meat because# it's delicious and it's affordable.

What's also clear is, whenever there# are more people and the economy grows,## meat production and consumption goes up.

And this# is, like, one of the most consistent findings in## social sciences is that, where food is concerned,# people care, is it delicious and is it affordable?

And then you look at meat production,# meat consumption, pretty much everywhere,## people really love meat.

So that's the# focus.

The products need to be -- they## need to taste the same or better, they need# to cost the same or less.

And that's how you## make plant-based meat and cultivated# meat that can win in the marketplace.

GEOFF BENNETT: I think for people who've# had a Beyond Burger or Impossible Burger,## it tastes close to the real thing,## but not quite.

Do you think we can get to a# point wher.. BRUCE FRIEDRICH: So the last chapter of the book,## chapter 11, I interviewed 30 plant-based meat# scientists and 30 cultivated meat scientists.

And I started with the question, can we get to# plant-based meat, cultivated meat, depending on## the scientist, that is cost-competitive with# and indistinguishable from cheap chicken and## cheap fish sticks?

Because that's -- if you# can get there, you can get everything else.

(LAUGHTER) BRUCE FRIEDRICH: And peopl.. look, if one thing requires nine# times the inputs of something else,## what would be the hurdle to plant fats and# proteins behaving like animal fats and proteins?

What would be the hurdle to growing# actual animal muscle and fat in tanks,## instead of on live animals?

So it's going to take# some time.

It's going to take some innovation.## But 10 years ago, there was no Beyond Burger;# 10 years ago, there was no Impossible Burger.

We have come a pretty long way on both# plant-based meat and cultivated meat in... (SNAP FINGERS) BRUCE FRIEDRICH: ... historically, that long.

GEOFF BENNETT: One of the takeaways in# this book for me was that, as we all .. consuming meat is deeply cultural.

It's tied to# identity.

It's tied to tradition in many ways,## and that changing production is really easier# and more realistic than changing human behavior.

So you start with changing production.

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Yes, I mean, it# certainly seems to be the case that, I## don't know if it's biological or physiological or# psychological or cultural, but it definitely does## seem to be the case that every place in the world# -- India might be to some degree an exception, but## even in India, meat consumption is up 300 percent# in the last 25 years, still at a pretty low level.

But every place else, the more meat# people can eat, the more meat they eat.## So we're probably not going to change that.

Some# people have been trying for more than 50 years,## and yet meat consumption just# keeps going up.

It's great if## people want to eat less meat or no meat.# But let's add another tool to the toolkit.

It seems really clear that science can make# meat from plants that is indistinguishable.## And it's absolutely the case that science# can grow actual animal meat.

Essentially,## it looks like a brewery.

If you walk into# a cultivated meat production factory,## it looks like a brewery, so a bunch of friendly# neighborhood meat breweries, essentially.

And that, we think, is how you handle# the external costs of meat production.

GEOFF BENNETT: The book is "Meat: How the Next## Agricultural Revolution Will Transform# Humanity's Favorite Food and Our Future."

Bruce Friedrich, founder and president of the Good# Food Institute, a real pleasure to speak with you.

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Thanks very much, Geoff.# It was a pleasure to speak with you.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News Hour"# for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "News Hour,"..