FAVOR TO WILDFIRES IMPROVE.

>>> DEMOCRATIC WISCONSIN SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN ANNOUNCED SHE IS RUNNING FOR A THIRD TERM.

AN ANOTHER SCORCHED EARTH CAMPAIGN, POLITICAL VITRIOL AN STEROIDS.

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE WISCONSIN WAY.

IN FACT, A NEW REPORT FROM THE CENTER FOR COMMUNICATION AND CIVIC RENEWAL AT UW MADISON SHOWS WISCONSIN'S POLITICAL DIVIDES ARE BREAKING CITIZENS APART.

CENTER DIRECTOR AND JOURNALISM PROFESSOR, MICHAEL WAGNER, JOINS US WITH DETAILS, AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE AGAIN.

>> IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>> SO WHAT ARE THE MOST PROMINENT SYMPTOMS OF WISCONSIN'S POLITICAL DIVIDE?

YOUR SURVEY CALLS THEM CIVIC FRACTURES.

>> YES.

SOME OF THE EXAMPLES WE SEE OF THAT ARE IN HOW POLITICS AND YOUR DEEP COMMITMENT TO OUR POLITICAL IDENTITIES IS IS NOW SHAPING HOW WE ENGAGE EVERY DAY WITH PEOPLE.

WE'VE STOPPED TALKING POLICIES.

WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT THE WEATHER OR THE BADGERS, BUT WE WON'T TALK POLITICS.

ONE IN FIVE HAVE CUT A FAMILY FEBRUARY OR FRIEND OUT OF OUR LIVES BECAUSE OF DISAGREEMENTS.

THAT MIGHT BE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO ENGAGE THEIR IDEAS OR MAYBE THE OTHER SIDE IS TELLING US WHO WE ARE IS INVALID OR MAYBE WE FEEL DANGEROUS IN SOME CONVERSATIONS OR WE MIGHT BE IN DANGER, AND SO IT'S HARD TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S DRIVING THESE THINGS, BUT PEOPLE ARE RETREATING FROM THE KIND OF DELIBERATION THAT IS FUNDAMENTAL TO DEMOCRACY.

>> THOUSAND AND WHY DID THIS HAPPEN?

>> IT'S GOTTEN WORSE SINCE ACT 10.

OVER THE LAST DECADE PLUS, WE'VE SEEN A GROWING FRACTURE IN THESE KINDS OF MEASURES OF OUR CIVIC HEALTH, AND SO 11 YEARS AGO, ABOUT 33% OF WISCONSINITES SAID THEY'D STOP TALKING POLITICS WITH A FRIEND.

NOW IT'S 60%.

IT'S REALLY INCREASED THE WAY THAT OUR LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR DEAL WITH EACH OTHER HAS GOTTEN MORE ACRIMONIOUS, OUR POLITICAL ADS HAVE GOTTEN MORE ACRIMONIOUS, NATIONAL POLITICS IS MORE COARSE AND FRAUGHT WITH ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE BOTH UNCIVIL OR OUTRIGHT DANGEROUS AND DISTURBING ON THE OTHER, AND SO ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING AT ONCE.

>> WHY IS THE MESSAGING THAT MAKES PEOPLE ANGRY, DISTRUSTFUL AND EVEN FEARFUL TO RESONANT?

>> WELL, PEOPLE ARE OFTEN DRIVEN PARTIALLY BY EMOTIONS AND THEIR DECISION-MAKING AND IT'S EASIER I THINK TO TAP INTO PEOPLE'S FEAR AND IT'S EASIER TO SAY TO PEOPLE, YOU'RE NOT THE REASON FOR YOUR PROBLEMS AND IT'S NOT BROAD STRUCTURAL THINGS THAT ARE REALLY HARD TO FIX; IT'S THOSE PEOPLE, THAT GROUP THAT WE DON'T LIKE IS WHY YOUR LIFE IS HARDER, AND SO IT BECOMES EASIER TO DISLIKE THAT GROUP AND SUPPORT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE TELLING YOU THAT THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> HOW SURPRISING IS YOUR FINDING THAT 60% OF STRONG TRUMP SUPPORTERS SAY THEY COULD HAVE TO USE FORCE TO SAVE THE TRADITIONAL AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE.

60%.

>> YEAH.

WE ARE INTERESTED IN HOW THESE CIVIC FRACTURES MIGHT LEAD TO ANTI-DEMOCRATIC OUTCOMES LIKE USING VIOLENCE TO ACHIEVE YOUR POLITICAL MEANS, AND FOR MOST REPUBLICANS, THEY SAY, NO, WE DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA, BUT AMONG THE ONE-THIRD OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE SUPPORTERS OF TRUMP, 60% OF THOSE FOLKS SAY THEY MIGHT ENDORSE THAT DEAL.

SAYING YOU ENDORSE FORCE RATHER THAN ACTUALLY DOING IT IS DIFFERENT, BUT THIS IS AN ALARMING AND DISTURBING RESULT, SO WE NEED TO KEEP AN EYE ON THIS AS A ASSOCIATED THAT THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS OTHER THAN USING VIOLENCE.

>> THIS REPORT SAYS THAT THIS DIAGNOSIS IS GRIM BUT THERE IS REASON FOR HOPE.

LIKE WHAT?

>> LOTS OF THINGS.

>> FIRST, PEOPLE FAVOR POLITICAL COMPROMISE EVEN OVER STICKING TO YOUR PRINCIPLES EVEN IF NOTHING GETS DONE.

MORE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THEIR VOTE WAS COUNTED.

STRONG CONFIDENCE IN THAT.

THERE'S STRONG SUPPORT FOR NON-PART SAT REDISTRICTING, WHICH IS A FAIRER WAY TO ENGAGE IN REPRESENTATION.

AND THERE'S STRONG SUPPORT FOR THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE ACROSS POLITICAL PARTIES.

AND SO THERE ARE FOUNDATIONS WE CAN BUILD ON TO IMPROVE DEMOCRACY IN OUR STATE.

>> IT SEEMS HARD TO UNDERSTAND HOW THERE IS 80% OF SURVEY RESPONDENTS BELIEVE THAT THEIR VOTE WAS COUNTED, WILL BE COUNTED.

HOW DOES THAT SQUARE WITH ELECTION DENIAL AND ALL OF THIS MISINFORMATION THAT WE'VE BEEN LISTENING TO FOR 2-1/2 YEARS?

>> WELL, WE'VE HEARD IT COMING REALLY FROM ONE CORNER OF POLITICAL DISCOURSE AND WE'VE SEEN MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPEN TO THAT IDEA ARE THESE TEND TO BE STRONG SUPPORTERS OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HE'S NOT RELENTED ON THAT MANY REPUBLICANS IN GOVERNMENT WILL EITHER AGREE WITH HIM OR WON'T DIRECTLY DISAGREE AND SO THERE'S THIS AMBIGUITY IS THERE THAT LETS PEOPLE FEEL LIKE MAYBE SEEMS LIKE THE ELECTION WAS REASONABLY CONDUCTED BUT MAYBE IT WASN'T OR MAYBE THERE WERE SOME PROBLEMS EVEN THOUGH ALL OF THE AUDITS, ALL OF THE LAWSUITS, ALL POINT TO THE SAME STORY, WHICH IS THAT WE DO THAT REALLY WELL IN WISCONSIN.

>> WHY DID YOUR CENTER EMBARK ON THIS STUDY?

>> WE REALLY CARE ABOUT WAYS WE CAN REKNIT TOGETHER THE CIVIC FABRIC.

THIS IS A STATE THAT HAS ELECTED PEOPLE IN STATEWIDE ELECTIONS FROM BOTH PARTIES.

IT'S A STATE THAT HAS HAD VERY TIBIAL AND VERY CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKERS REPRESENT US AND WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT IN WAYS WHERE WE COULD TALK TOGETHER, WORK TOGETHER, TRY TO SOLVE PROBLEMS TOGETHER, AND AS THOSE THINGS FRACTURE, BECOMES HARDER TO DO THAT.

WEPT TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM SO WEB HEM ARTICULATE A SOLUTION.

>> MIKE WAGNER, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS WISCONSIN